Are you worried about the intimidating process of college planning? In this episode, I sit down with Shawn Coates, the owner of Class 101 Mesa Gilbert. We hired Shawn to help our daughter choose the right school, create a stellar application, and secure the best scholarship opportunities. She demystified the process for us, and I know she can do so for you, too.
We delve into a wide array of topics, from exploring student interests in careers like medicine to the intricacies of college application deadlines and financial considerations. Shawn gives us a glimpse into unique programs and activities that high school students can pursue to make themselves competitive candidates for college applications. She also unravels the complexities of college application processes, touching on the pros and cons of early action, early decision, and regular decision. Along the way, she stresses the importance of having a backup plan and doing due diligence before making a decision.
Lastly, Shawn doesn't shy away from the often dreaded issue of college affordability. She shares her wisdom on how students and families can navigate the financial aspect, and the crucial role of scholarships in easing the burden. She also emphasizes the need to understand the true cost of a college education and to consider more affordable college options. So tune in, and let this illuminating conversation guide you and your child in the college planning process.
Are you worried about the intimidating process of college planning? In this episode, I sit down with Shawn Coates, the owner of Class 101 Mesa Gilbert. We hired Shawn to help our daughter choose the right school, create a stellar application, and secure the best scholarship opportunities. She demystified the process for us, and I know she can do so for you, too.
We delve into a wide array of topics, from exploring student interests in careers like medicine to the intricacies of college application deadlines and financial considerations. Shawn gives us a glimpse into unique programs and activities that high school students can pursue to make themselves competitive candidates for college applications. She also unravels the complexities of college application processes, touching on the pros and cons of early action, early decision, and regular decision. Along the way, she stresses the importance of having a backup plan and doing due diligence before making a decision.
Lastly, Shawn doesn't shy away from the often dreaded issue of college affordability. She shares her wisdom on how students and families can navigate the financial aspect, and the crucial role of scholarships in easing the burden. She also emphasizes the need to understand the true cost of a college education and to consider more affordable college options. So tune in, and let this illuminating conversation guide you and your child in the college planning process.
Hi there. Welcome to Piece of Work, the podcast. I'm Danielle Tantone. I'm a nurse, author, coach and survivor. I love inspiring people to live their best life, reach for those big dreams and find joy even in the pain.
Danielle Tantone:As I wrote my memoir over so many years, trying to make sense of a story where I was way too often the bad guy instead of the hero, I came to understand that we are all a piece of work, but we're also a work in progress, and even in our messiness we are a work of art too. All at the very same time, in fact, we are all beautifully unique pieces of one masterpiece waves in the same ocean. This podcast will explore the stories and struggles that make us human, the miracles that surround us and all the ways we work to make sense of it all. Welcome to Peace of Work, the podcast. Welcome back to Peace of Work.
Danielle Tantone:I'm Danielle Tantone, and today I'm here with my friend, Shawn Coates. She has a business called Class 101, mesa Gilbert, and she works one-on-one with high school students to help them through the college planning process. She can talk about it way more eloquently than me, so I'm going to let her introduce herself. I wanted to just say that I have gotten to know her just a little bit through my daughter, cameron, who has been going through her program, and have been really impressed with everything that she knows.
Shawn Coates:So, Shawn, thanks for being here with me today. Thank you very much for inviting me, so you want me to introduce myself?
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, do a little better job than I just did of telling us who you are. You did a good job.
Shawn Coates:And how you got into it. So my name is Sean Coates and I own Class 101, mesa Gilbert. I am an independent educational consultant and I work one-on-one, as you mentioned, with high school students and their families and helping them navigate the complicated college planning process. I help with everything from A to Z and making sure that the students don't miss any opportunities that are available to them.
Shawn Coates:And how I got into this business was when my own children were going through the college planning process. I was working as an administrator at a high school and I worked. We didn't have counselors at our high school, so I was at a charter school and I did all of our post-secondary planning for our students. So I was doing career assessments, making sure that students were choosing the right school for the right reason, looking at their return on their investment and basically walking them through the process.
Shawn Coates:And my oldest son, who's 24 and he's now graduated from U of A, when he was starting to explore the college planning process, I realized how frequently his friends and his friends' families were missing opportunities along the way, simply just because they weren't aware of them, and so I just kind of started thinking about how I could help other kids, and I suddenly, on Saturday mornings, had six teenage boys sitting around my kitchen table doing career assessments and prepping for the SAT and ACT. And it was kind of funny because it just kind of naturally evolved. And in fact one of my good friends and one of his friends' moms said to me can I just pay you to do everything?
Shawn Coates:because Anthony and I are going to kill each other over this process and you know what you're doing, and it's been 30 years since I've applied to college and I don't understand the process anymore.
Danielle Tantone:Well, and it's so different. Back when I applied to college, there was no internet, there was like a book at school. I mean, I definitely made decisions with very little information. We didn't do college tours. I think the first time I set foot on U of A campus was the first day of school there 100%, and it's kind of funny.
Shawn Coates:My life has truly come full circle because I went to college at the University of San Diego, I graduated in $95,000, $46,000 in debt, and I didn't know that I could have gone to ASU for free, and so I just want students to be able to make decisions with the information you know, have all the information at their disposal so that they can look at this from a financial standpoint, because my life would have been remarkably different if I didn't graduate. You know a grant that was 30 years ago, but $46,000 in debt then was a lot of money, a lot of money.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, back then, asu U of A was a couple thousand dollars a year if you were an in-state resident.
Shawn Coates:Definitely. It's not very expensive at all, definitely, and I graduated with a degree in political science and didn't intend to go on to law school. So if someone would have helped me with the process, I would have most definitely decided that I didn't want to go to law school before I was a senior in college. So it's truly, my life has truly come full circle and I really enjoy helping students evaluate their options and their opportunities, and it's much easier for me to have those one-on-one conversations with students than it is for their parents to have those one-on-one conversations with students even though they're very important.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, I mean, you're like this outside authority that knows stuff and isn't personally invested, and I think that makes a huge difference.
Shawn Coates:It does, and when my own children were going through the college planning process, they worked with someone other than me because of the end of the day, I'm mom and although this is what I do professionally and people pay me handsomely to do it, at the end of the day I'm mom and the kids don't want to talk about their GPA or their test scores or their career assessments with mom Right.
Danielle Tantone:Right, at least all the time. I absolutely see that. So, yeah, it's such a process, and you listened to the interview I did a couple of weeks ago with Cameron and you know it, just her, you know, she's not maybe the typical student, although I think you work with a lot of high caliber students.
Shawn Coates:I do. But she has some, I think, some beautiful gifts that are rare and she, when she read the poem that she wrote, it brought me to tears, literally.
Danielle Tantone:Like it gave me tears.
Shawn Coates:Yes, and it was so raw and real and heartfelt and I told, in fact, to my next meeting with her. I said that has to go in your application somewhere, totally, and we're just going to figure out where that's going to go.
Danielle Tantone:And that's her gift is being able to share that emotion in a way that's universal. That's what I told her. Even watching that, I was like even watching her read it. I was like I can relate to that, and it's been you know not about the college process, but just just having to lay yourself bare and, you know, find something that's worth something to these people that are trying to judge you.
Shawn Coates:Right that take 12 minutes to read your application that you've worked on for the last, you know, year and a half. So yes, but she, but yeah, I truly appreciated that. In fact, I don't even know if she mentioned to you I gave her a list of opportunities for like writing competitions, so that she could share some of her work.
Shawn Coates:Yeah, because that is truly a gift. But sometimes when students have and just individuals have gifts like that, to put that to work makes it no longer a gift, like I had a really good friend who is a chef and she had her own cooking. In fact, I posted a picture of the crab cakes that I made with the horse radish.
Danielle Tantone:Oh, yes, I saw those.
Shawn Coates:I almost taste them through the the yeah, they're amazing, and I used to. I used to teach wine classes. She would teach the cooking part and then I would come in and teach wine pairings and it was her business, was called cooking for pleasure, and she was teaching others how to make those wonderful those dishes, those dishes. And then it became so much work that it was no longer pleasure for her, so she ended up closing closing her business.
Danielle Tantone:That does happen sometimes, but hopefully with writing, you know, I don't, I don't know how Cameron feels about it, but when you have a gift for writing, you kind of want to, you kind of want people to read your words, I, I, usually I agree, even if you're an introvert, even you know it's sort of that that gives you pleasure to to have people your words touch people, so and I think that can be a great way for others to connect and express Right yeah.
Danielle Tantone:So besides, so what I started to say was Cameron's maybe not the typical student, but what? What kind of are the main things that you see the students struggling with? Where are the main areas where you really dig in and help them?
Shawn Coates:So you know, every student is unique and and it's a really an individualized approach based on what the students goals are or what the students sometimes students don't have any goals. I think most often students come in and they're like this is the next phase of life that I'm expected to go through. I have no idea where to start or what I want to do, and it's expensive and intimidating. And my parents say I need to go to college. But do I need to go to college? And so we start with assessments, career assessments, and we do several of them over time because it helps the student build confidence that here's some things that I are within my natural abilities and my gifts and that I may want to consider, consider exploring. And oftentimes students will come in and let's just say a student's interested in nursing, because everyone knows what a nurse does.
Shawn Coates:At least they think they do, at least they think they do.
Danielle Tantone:I had no idea what a nurse does before.
Shawn Coates:I actually became one. So it's kind of funny because students will that's something that they have exposure to, they know it's, you know, most likely going to require a four year degree and they have a vague idea of what what it requires. But they may not have considered other. I would call them like sister occupations or occupations that overlap that they may want to consider because because they might enjoy that more than nursing.
Shawn Coates:And so we spend a lot of time looking at different careers and helping the students with okay, well, what is it that you like about this? What are the pros and what are the cons? And maybe we want to consider occupational therapy, or can you see yourself doing this for the next 30 years, and it might involve, you know, my sister's a nurse and she is an electational consultant as well, so there's other opportunities and things that can come along with it. So just try to help the students get a better understanding so that they feel confident with what they want to go to college for.
Danielle Tantone:And then what do you actually do with them? So you mentioned assessments. I know there's some prep for the ACTs and the ACTs, but what else? In your meetings and in your time with them? If you're with them, you know what typically is the timeframe. Tell us a little bit about that and how often you meet with them and stuff.
Shawn Coates:So I meet with freshmen every eight weeks and freshmen have different goals than you know sophomores, juniors and seniors. Freshman it's about you know, understanding the importance of earning strong grades, taking the right classes, taking classes that are going to help them fulfill their interest while they're in high school, making sure that they are getting involved on campus. Sophomores I meet with every six weeks and then we start talking about okay, you've been involved on campus, you have good grades, are you interested in some leadership positions? Some students are, some students aren't and just making sure that they understand this is what colleges these are the colleges that you have on your list this is what they're going to want to see from you to kind of build their exposure and experience throughout their activities and also provide some depth. So if students I think they're interested in, let's just say, medicine, there are activities that they can get involved and that will support that.
Danielle Tantone:Like, for example, what would be if they wanted to go into medicine? What might they get involved in?
Shawn Coates:So great question. So they might, their high school might have sports medicine and they could participate in that. Their high school might also have something called HOSA, which is like a competitive healthcare competition, but they meet monthly or depending on the school and when they're programmed. There's also, like the University of Arizona offers, a program called Saturday Scrubs and it's in downtown Phoenix so students can go. It's once a month and if they complete I think it's seven sessions, that will actually get a certificate at the end and then they'll get a set of scrubs. But each monthly meeting it's three hours but they're going to get exposure to perhaps one month that might be an OBGYN, the next month that might be a neurosurgeon who's talking about brain surgery. The following month it's really cool.
Shawn Coates:It is a really cool, it's a great opportunity. Cameron might even enjoy that. It's wonderful. I've had students that have participated and they're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea about the endocrinology, about what the endocrine system does, and now I'm really interested in that and my brother has diabetes. Just the exposure that it can give to them, which then provides some depth. And when they're applying to school, if they're applying to, let's just say they have, if they're gonna be applying as a, there's something called a Bachelor's of Science, a BSMD program, which is more of accelerated program. Well, those are very competitive. In fact, the University of Arizona selected five students of 320 applicants last year. So to be a competitive applicant in a process like that, there are things that schools are gonna wanna see from you on the way. That's really neat. So, like MIT likes to see math competitions and they like to see students take computer science, and sometimes students have to go outside their comfort level of what's available within their school to backfill and support those interests if they're not available to them.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, what if somebody's interested in more of like the arts, like, let's say they're in musical theater? What would you short of like being involved in musical theater in high school? What?
Shawn Coates:So I actually had just an amazing student this last admission cycle who I've been working with for a couple of years and I actually worked with his older brother as well and he, when he would, he was participating in like local community theater as well as theater and high school, and when he would talk about his performances he was. You could just see that he would. That would light up.
Danielle Tantone:I saw you light up, but I'm just thinking about it.
Shawn Coates:Oh, yes, and he. It was so funny because we kept doing assessments over a set. I think we ended up doing probably five assessments, which is more than I usually do. Usually four is pretty good. But he kept defaulting that he's good in math and science and so he wanted to pursue engineering and I ended up.
Shawn Coates:I don't recall the exact moment when he said I think I'm gonna explore musical theater, but I kept encouraging it because I could just see that that was such a gift and thankfully he has the most amazing support of parents, because some parents will be like, oh my God, that's, you're gonna be a starving artist and you're never gonna make any money and you're gonna be living in my basement until you're 35. And his parents really were. They could see that that was his gift too and it was. It's such a rewarding like I love what I do because it is so rewarding. But I remember his dad said to me I went to go see one of his performances and his dad said to me thank you so much for giving him the space to be comfortable and to really explore his gifts.
Shawn Coates:And we are so happy for him so he this happened I wanna say just about maybe not even a year ago, because we had to shift his whole college list based on musical theater programs versus engineering. And so he's going to Loyola Marymount.
Danielle Tantone:I'm very excited for him Nice, nice. Yeah, I can relate to that very much, and there's so many ways to look at that too that I think it's sad when people have to suppress their gifts and go away that they're not. But at the same time I majored in musical theater my first year of college at U of A. At the same time I think that one thing I wasn't aware of back then is how creative, how much creativity you can have in all different and like in business, for example. I wish I would have for me. It wasn't the right thing to. I didn't stick with musical theater and there's a whole story to that, but I wish I had realized how much my creative interest could have been applicable to other things In other areas.
Danielle Tantone:So that's, another thing.
Shawn Coates:Well, and we actually the student and I talked about that because I tried to explain to him that because he's a theater student, he's used to handling disappointment and rejection Killer base, yes, and those are skills that are oftentimes missing in the workplace. So a student who's been a high performing math and science student, the first time they get a D or the project doesn't go the way that it's supposed to go and they can, only they're thinking linear, they're not thinking creatively to problem solve. Those are skills that can be cross utilized upon graduation.
Danielle Tantone:That's interesting. That's an interesting aspect I hadn't even thought of. Yeah, there's so much you learn from theater, even the whole acting thing. We wear hats in life, like no matter what we do. Even if you don't have five jobs, like I do, you wear and you do have to act. You do have to you speak differently when you're speaking to your doctor or your kids, versus your best friend, versus someone on the street, like it's and that's okay. That doesn't mean that you're not being authentic, that's just you play roles in life.
Shawn Coates:Definitely I All. Throughout college I worked in restaurants and even after college I worked in restaurants, and when you're on the floor, you're definitely acting.
Danielle Tantone:You're on, you are on you have to be on.
Shawn Coates:And when I was a senior in college, I interned at a law firm and when I was applying for it, the paralegal said do you know why we decided to interview you versus the other applicants that we had? And I said well, I have no idea. I would like to say that it's because of my outstanding grades and experience. And she said it's because you've worked in restaurants. Because we only hire people in our firm that have worked in restaurants, because they know how to deal with all kinds of people.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, you can deal with people yelling at you or whatever the chef yelling at you. Yeah, because life is like that. I mean, being a nurse is like that. You have patients that are unhappy, you have families that are unhappy, you have or happy, but you have to be able to deal with the gamut of human emotion and you care without bleeding your heart. So, yeah, that's interesting. What I found in my life is that, because I'm about the same age as you, I graduated from high school in 92 and college in 96, is just the similarity between different jobs.
Danielle Tantone:Being a waitress and being a realtor and being a nurse is really the same job. You're cleaning up poop. Sometimes it's a figurative kind of poop and sometimes it's a literal kind of poop and you're smiling and you're listening to people and hopefully listening a little more than you talk, which it's always been a work in progress for me and that's it. That's it is. You're serving people, but then a lot of other jobs are more behind the scenes and there's less of that service of people.
Shawn Coates:Anyway, we got off track there, which I tend to do Together, we are going to be in trouble.
Danielle Tantone:But that's OK, because there's no agenda here. We're just chatting and getting to know you and sharing about your business and your life. So what did you do before? How did you start at this business? How many years ago now?
Shawn Coates:So I've been in private practice for six years. Prior to that, I was an administrator at Sun Valley High School in Mesa and I had the best job ever because I worked at a nine and a half month contract. I worked one-on-one with high school students. I didn't have to do discipline, I got to help them prepare and plan for their future and I was hired to create and implement programs. So I oversaw all of our career and technical education. So I implemented a CNA program On our campus. I had a pharmacy technician program. I created a partnership with Home Depot and did construction, had a construction.
Danielle Tantone:You're such an innovator and mover and shaker.
Shawn Coates:That's awesome, Very cool. Well, at that time it was 2010. I had been a stay-at-home mom and my husband and I were both in real estate and that was not a good position to be in.
Danielle Tantone:I wanted to talk. We'll talk about that too, because as you know, I have a history in real estate too.
Shawn Coates:That's kind of funny. I was searching for your email. You and Doug must have had a transaction at one point. I think we did so.
Shawn Coates:I was a stay-at-home mom, essentially, and I had this wonderful principal who gave me this opportunity and said you're going to figure things out and you're going to get it done and you'll implement it. And there was a lot of moving pieces, especially when you're working with career and technical education. There's funding and you're working with the Arizona Board of Nursing and you're working with the Arizona Board of Education. So it was a project, but I really, really enjoyed it.
Shawn Coates:And then I was able to focus on allowing students students that thought they wanted to be a nurse Well, let's participate in the CNA program and let's see if this is the reality. Yeah, you can do it. And sometimes students would say thank you so much. I know now that that's not what I want, and I tell students all the time it's just as important to figure that out as it is to figure out what you do want to do, because you don't want to do what I did and decide your senior year in college that you want to change your major and you're already graduating $46,000 in debt, and then you're going to have to go back to school.
Danielle Tantone:Or 30 years after high school, you decide to go back to nursing school.
Shawn Coates:There's nothing wrong with that. My mom did that. My mom and I graduated. She graduated from nursing school when I graduated from college. That's awesome yeah.
Danielle Tantone:So where were we? Ok, so you were working in the high school, and then how did you decide to go from that to private practice?
Shawn Coates:So, interestingly enough, I knew that my principal was probably approaching time to retire and he was just an amazing individual to work with, and I felt like the district wasn't supporting my role. There were several other high schools in the valley that were under the same umbrella, but I was the only career in technical education assistant principal that did post-secondary planning, so I just felt like the district was going to be well. Actually, they came to me and said we're going to have you work 12 months and we're not going to pay you anymore, and so I definitely felt that there was going to be some pushback yeah.
Shawn Coates:So that was the straw that broke the camel's back, and I'd already been looking at class 101's actually a franchise it's out of. I was going to ask you about that. It's out of Lexington, kentucky, and I had been looking at it for about probably about close to a year, and I literally found it on a Google search on the way home from a trip to San Diego and my husband and I were talking about what could we do where we could make more money and maybe not work as many hours, and I probably, truth be told, work more hours and make less money.
Danielle Tantone:That's the way it usually happens when you're an entrepreneur, because there's so many different facets of the business besides just the actual work you do 100%.
Shawn Coates:And so I had already participated in a discovery day with class 101. And when the district came to me and said, 12-month contract, same amount of money, I said that's my sign to pull the no.
Danielle Tantone:That doesn't sound good to me.
Shawn Coates:Yes, and at that same time, my oldest had just graduated from high school. He was in college, my second son was going into his senior year, and then I have a daughter who was a junior, so it was a perfect timing for me to launch and sitting at swim meets and cheer competitions and whatnot, parents were always bending my ear on what should I be doing for college, and when I opened, I immediately had eight clients and I broke the franchise record for the first month. That's so great. So it was, and that was not my intention.
Danielle Tantone:You just have one of those personalities where you're outgoing and you're friendly and you're connected with people, and so I think it lends itself, Because there's a lot of there's a sales component. You've got to sell your services and the ability to talk to the kids. It's a very complicated role. You play.
Shawn Coates:It is and probably to my franchisors a disappointment. I always say that I provide a service. If you feel my service is valuable, I want you to. I want to work with you, but I don't want anyone to run away from me in the grocery store because here's that lady that keeps trying to sell college planning. So sales is my least favorite part of the process. I try to and I probably could be much better at it.
Danielle Tantone:See, I think that why you're good at it is because you connect with people instead of trying to sell them Nobody wants to be sold and you educate them. Like, even when we sat down with you the first time we first met you, we saw a presentation that you did at the high school. Oh, that's right.
Danielle Tantone:And I was like oh, this lady has some good information, and our situation is that we have two families my older daughters there with my ex-husband, and so we're divorced and we're each remarried and we get along really well and we're both we all four love those kids, but we have four very different personalities, and so I knew it was not going to be easy, especially for Cameron, our oldest, to try to navigate all of that and for us to help her, and so the fact that we were able to all get in with you, and then you not only won me over, but then you won them the rest of them over too.
Shawn Coates:You have an amazing family and I don't know how you all function as normally and as cohesively as you do. I could say you should write a book, but you have a cap. That's funny. But really I work with a lot of families and a lot of blended families, and Cameron is so blessed and I tell her that.
Danielle Tantone:I think she knows it, she does.
Danielle Tantone:It's not always as easy as probably she makes it look, but I think mostly because, thankfully, we're all four mature adults and, even though we don't always see exactly eye to eye, we all really do love those kids and we communicate more by text than in person. I think that's probably a key, even though texting can take the emotion can be misconstrued. I think in the beginning, when we first got divorced, that was the easiest way. We didn't want the emotion and we were able to be pragmatic and thankfully, yeah, we had two relatively mature people that put the kids before us and didn't let ourselves get bogged down with all the petty stuff that I think sometimes can get in the way.
Danielle Tantone:Well, you do an amazing job, thank you thank you and you know we're not perfect, but I feel blessed by our situation and I feel blessed by the choice that my ex has been made in choosing a mate and choosing a stepmom. Like I, couldn't have dreamed up a better stepmom for my kids. She's very different from me, but we really are pretty blessed.
Shawn Coates:I had a former mentor tell me that God puts people in your life to help you understand who you want to be and who you don't want to be.
Danielle Tantone:That's neat that's neat, so okay. So we got. We talked about how you got into class 101. So you bought the franchise, you broke the records and you're just winning people over it. Like I said, it was your warmth and your knowledge and all of that that. I was like you know what. Whatever this costs, I think it will be worth it for our sanity because it'll take the emotion out of it. Like I said earlier, you know you are an uninvolved. We already have four parents who are?
Danielle Tantone:involved and you're this extra, you know, third party, fourth party, fifth party.
Shawn Coates:Well and I give the students. The students have assignments, they have homework that they do for me and there are some expectations that they're going to. The program is only as good as the students if the students put forth the effort. So you know, while we work on test prep, if a student just comes to class and does the test prep there but they don't do any of the skills remediation at home, they're not gonna get as much out of it and that's no different than anything else in life.
Shawn Coates:So I tell families that part of this is college and career readiness and allowing the student to own the process. If the student isn't owning the process and that very rarely, rarely happens then there's a reason. And although I do college advising, I will freely tell students that not all students are meant to go to college and not all students need to go to college, which sometimes parents are like oh my God, I can't believe. You just said that. But you know, my daughter's boyfriend right now is going to school for aircraft mechanic. He'll be able to make six figures after going to school for 18 months. School wasn't his thing and that's okay.
Danielle Tantone:And I like to say life is long. Like he may, in 10, 20 years, wanna go to college or not, lots of successful entrepreneurs or people who are a specialty in a certain area. They don't need a four year degree to do that.
Shawn Coates:Now I have to say that if my son, ryan listens to this, he is going to be like I've been telling you for years, mom, I don't need a college degree.
Danielle Tantone:And I'm like oh no, you're finishing.
Shawn Coates:He's going to school to be a pilot, and they don't need a four year degree right now. But when the airline industry goes into its cycles and it takes a downturn, the first pilots that will be laid off are the ones that don't have a four year degree.
Danielle Tantone:Well, I will say there's. I've always felt like there's a value in a four year degree. I know I, thankfully, was somebody that liked school, but I think that even if you don't use it, even if you go into sales and marketing, even if you become a realtor and you don't need that four year degree, there was a value in that whole experience and in the things I learned and the learning, the learning to learn, learning to study, Of course, the things I studied I majored in journalism with a minor in French and obviously the journalism has definitely come in handy. Being able to write concisely is a huge thing that most people can't do in business, Absolutely. But even the French minor I mean going studying abroad in Paris, my junior year was, I mean, an experience that I'll never forget. I take it with me that I learned things that you can't even I don't even know that I learned, you know it's just part of me.
Shawn Coates:Yes, and studying abroad was my biggest regret or not studying abroad was my biggest regret in college, so I really encouraged all of my children to do that. There's an author named Jeff Zalingo and he has a book that it's called there's Life After College and he talks about you are gonna make or break your college experience based on the opportunities that are presented to you and that you take advantage of. Who you are is not going to be based on where you go to college. It's what you do with your experience and I think that's valuable.
Danielle Tantone:I so agree with that. I think that paying attention to the cues and the things that come your way is important in life, and yeah, I think that that is so true taking advantage of the experiences that you're given.
Shawn Coates:And so when I share that with students, some students have wanted their whole life to go to a school that has a single digit admissions rates, and so, while we can target that, we have to find other schools and programs that the students are gonna be happy with and enjoy so that they don't feel like they didn't have any choices.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, and I think it's so easy to get caught up on. Well, I wanna go to this one every like school or I wanna go and or I absolutely do not wanna go in state. I was like that. I didn't wanna go in state and hear it there. I ended up going and I had a wonderful experience. So, yeah, I think it's important to keep your all options open.
Shawn Coates:I tell seniors, as we're going into well, your daughter's going into her senior year I tell them that fall of senior year is about casting a wide net so that they have options and opportunities in the spring. We don't have to make any big decisions now on. You know the top schools that they're evaluating. Well, I mean they have to know where they're going to apply by, ideally tomorrow.
Danielle Tantone:But yeah, I was gonna say what is the timeframe? We're pretty, we're approaching it right?
Shawn Coates:Well, they have until the middle of October, truly, but August 1st is when the Common App opens, and so that's when you'll start to hear. Schools will start sending out emails. You still have time to apply. They put this like fear in the way yeah, like you gotta do it right now.
Danielle Tantone:You gotta do it right now.
Shawn Coates:And then like no, we've got plenty of time, we're not applying until everything is perfect, and so then they'll have, they'll submit decisions, or they'll submit applications, usually before November 1st, and then they'll get their decisions back, depending on the application they choose, which will be evaluating those deadlines coming up. Because there's early action, there's early decision.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that, cause I'm sure people who are listening might have kids in high school, certainly.
Shawn Coates:So there are. So early action is probably the most common. That typically means that students can apply early and receive a decision earlier. Usually that's applying by November 1st or November 15th and then getting a decision back either in the middle of December or early January. There's also early decision. Early decision is a binding decision and students can only apply early decision to one school. With that there's a contract, so the students have to sign the contract, the parents sign the contract and the guidance counselor at the school signs the contract. There is the expectation that students will only apply to one school early decision and sometimes savvy parents, sometimes attorneys, will be like well, how are they gonna know if I'm gonna apply to two different schools? Well, if you apply early decision to two different schools and students are admitted to two different schools, both schools can reject that student's application because there is some expectation that you are going to play fair by the rules.
Danielle Tantone:It's kind of like making an offer on two different properties in real estate.
Shawn Coates:Like it's a contract, you're signing the contract when you write the offer, yes, yes, and the agent shouldn't you know? You just don't do that. Now you play ethically. And then there's rolling decision, rolling decision and ASU and U of A are both rolling decisions. So they, you submit your application, you should receive a decision back. Sometimes it's two days, sometimes it's three to four weeks, depending on their admissions officers and where they're at with their evaluating their pool. And then there's regular decision, and regular decision is typically a later decision, usually January, sometimes February, and then students will get a decision back shortly after. Okay, that's neat.
Danielle Tantone:So what's the disadvantage of the early decision, besides that you're picking one school with Good question?
Shawn Coates:The disadvantage is that you have to be willing to attend that university and prepared to attend that university, regardless of what your scholarship or financial aid offer is going to look like. So students really need to do their due diligence and families need to do due diligence to make sure that that is going to be the right decision. So I had a student I usually only have one or two students that are going to apply early decision. The students usually have a very good idea of what it's going to cost and they're prepared to pay that cost.
Danielle Tantone:So what if, let's just say they apply to an Ivy League school and they apply early decision and then they get the package and for whatever, let's say, their situation changed or the parents just say no or whatever that happens? Then what? They can cancel their contract or how, yes they essentially?
Shawn Coates:I mean, at the end of the day, no one's going to come in with a white suit in the middle of the night and capture the child. It usually has to be explained that things have changed and this happens. I had a family a couple of years ago where the dad was an attorney and he was making great money and then he lost his job and he wasn't prepared to pay $74,000 without having employment to go to Duke, and so that was a disadvantage. His son was deeply disappointed. At the end of the day, he had backup plans and it can be explained.
Danielle Tantone:So you really shouldn't apply early decision unless you really are in that position to do that. That's tough, it's tough to know and it's tough to like, you know. I know we can use Cameron as an example. I know she really would love to go to Brown. That's one of the Ivy League schools and they don't offer merit scholarships. They only offer need-based scholarships. And because of our family dynamic and even if it was, frankly, even if it was just my family, like I mean, I don't make, I'm not making it rich as a nurse and an author and stuff, but we're not I keep telling Cameron we're really not going to qualify for much financial based. We're pretty much middle class, you know.
Shawn Coates:And that's so disheartening for students when they've worked like like Cameron has worked so hard. And then it comes down to for many of the universities the ones that take the CSS profile and are going to look at your financial situation it the students who can afford to pay full price are definitely at an advantage. There was just an article that was published over the weekend so there's a lot of chatter on it, but there was a study that was done at your most elite institutions and how, the more by the way, what is full price these days?
Danielle Tantone:Just give us a range for.
Shawn Coates:Ivy.
Danielle Tantone:League versus even the state schools are way, way more than they were 30 years ago.
Shawn Coates:So ASU and U of A are 30, 30 and 31,000 for in-state students.
Shawn Coates:Even that's crazy and that's tuition, room and board and fees. Okay, now I have a student who is going to Vanderbilt this next cycle and the cost of attendance. And when they calculate the cost of attendance they are calculating in tuition fees, room and board, travel expense, books, all of their additional technology fees and whatnot, and her cost of attendance was 91,000. So it varies greatly. The students, who many universities will have initiatives where, if let's just say, the family and in your case it's you're remarried and your ex-husband is remarried and so they're taking into consideration for professionals income, some of you. So, going back on that, some students, some universities will have an affordability initiatives where families who make less than, let's just say, 200 or 250,000, they're going to get a tuition essentially it's a tuition discount is what you want to look at it as, but the students, that families that collectively have a higher income Right.
Danielle Tantone:Well, and what's crazy is that 200,000 for between four people is actually not not a very high income at all. And especially if, how do they expect someone who's only making 200,000 to pay $91,000 a year? If you only make 200,000 and you've been living off that for all your regular home and you know expenses Right?
Shawn Coates:it's not. It's not realistic, it doesn't even make sense.
Danielle Tantone:How can you add you know half your income Right and they're looking at.
Shawn Coates:they're calculating that and it might sound like a bit of a conspiracy theorist in a way, but I personally believe they calculate it for two reasons they want to see if the student can afford to sustain their enrollment at the university, because the universities are businesses, first, and they're educational institutions second. And they want to know you know, can Cameron afford to to, if you, if you sold all your assets, and they would expect you know we have rental property. So when my children do the the FAFSA or I do the FAFSA with them, they would expect us to sell all of our rental properties and to deplete our assets in order to pay for college.
Shawn Coates:And that's not necessary or realistic and or a good return on your investments, right? So there are many other options and there are some schools that, as we've discussed with Cameron, you know where students can get paid to go to school?
Danielle Tantone:Yes, I want to talk about that because that is just to me. You know, you said earlier, like Cameron's worked so hard, she she's worked so hard to. So I feel like she should take advantage of any merit based scholarships available. So tell us about this national merit scholarship program.
Shawn Coates:So she has a score on. So it's based on the national merit is based on the PSAT that students take in October of their junior year and it will actually be announced in September, like right at shortly after Labor Day. So essentially, the national merit scholarship foundation takes 11 months to evaluate who will be identified. It's there identifying the top half of the top 1% of juniors nationwide that took that test Cameron's score and it's based on an index score, which is kind of silly because it's a. It's a score that's broken down from English or essentially, reading, writing and math. They multiply it, they take the index score. It's out of now I'm going to sound like I can't remember if it's out of 36 or 38. I want to say 38. And then they add them. I'll add those three digits together and they multiply it by two. That's the student's index score.
Shawn Coates:Wow, in Arizona it's usually around for a finalist. It's usually around 216 to 218, but it depends on how Arizona students do and it depends on how students do nationwide. So, having said that, if you live in New Jersey, the index score could be 226. If you live in Mississippi, it could be 203. So it varies, it is, but it is a top accolade that students can earn and it can open the doors for some scholarships, not only from additional universities but also from the National Merit Scholarship Foundation. So we are anticipating that she will be identified as a national merit. And then there's some other things that students have to do as far as verifying it. There's a form they have to fill out they're high school and send in, and there are some schools across the country, as we've talked about the University of Alabama that will pay students the National Merit students to go to school. So the University of Alabama has more national merit scholars on their campus than any other school in the country, and it's because students can literally get paid to go to school.
Danielle Tantone:So they have proactively created a program to draw those high caliber students to their school. I think it's brilliant and it's so amazing. When I found out about that, I mean go into it that a little bit. I had it open on my computer. I know it's free room, it's tuition room and board plus a stipend. A stipend Plus they pay for you to do a study abroad, which we talked about. The value of that, yes, there was a couple other things. It's just an amazing opportunity.
Shawn Coates:Now, august 1st is kind of the date where things reset. We don't anticipate them changing or the institution changing their scholarship, because it is so it's regarded nationally. It's a wonderful opportunity for students. And then you put all those national merit students on campus together and they can literally change the world.
Danielle Tantone:Totally, and so she knows there's going to be that handful. How many do you think they draw on a annual?
Shawn Coates:basis. That's a good question, and I'm a couple hundred OK.
Danielle Tantone:So that's pretty awesome too, because I know that's a big concern is she wants to be surrounded by other people who are of her intellectual caliber and open minded.
Shawn Coates:Well, and I think there are other schools like the University of South Carolina is one that I've suggested to her. They and I literally showed her that she'll get in state tuition. She'll get her merit scholarship. There's other scholarships that will stack on top of it. She's not going to get paid, but she's also probably not going to have to pay, so that's pretty awesome, texas.
Danielle Tantone:Tech has a program. When you look at you know 80, 90 thousand dollars as what she's saving. That's a huge. That's like getting a job that pays a hundred thousand dollars a year.
Shawn Coates:I mean definitely and the and just the opportunities that she'll have along the way, and especially for students who are considering graduate school whether you know they're going up, they even tend to go to law school or get their MBA or go to medical school. It's important for students to make their undergraduate education as affordable as possible, because there are far fewer scholarships for for graduate level.
Danielle Tantone:So that sounds like A pretty amazing program.
Shawn Coates:Yes, and having worked with several students that you know that choose to go and apply to universities all across the country for a variety of reasons I can give. I can usually give students a good idea of what they can expect, the cost, before they apply, and I think it's really important for for families to understand that, because the last thing I want a student to do is to fall in love with the university and then it's not going to be an affordable option. And I remember cautioning her before. I'm like when, before she went to Brown, I was like you're going to love it, just be careful. Yeah.
Danielle Tantone:And it's hard to be as her mom, because I, like, on one hand, there's one side of me that's like you know what, if that's what you want, I will find a way to pay for it. I will build my business. It'll just be that much more motivation for me. We'll make it happen together. I, you know unicorns and rainbows. That's, that's my yes. Go to. I'm a yes person. Yes, yes, yes. But when then? When you, when you put that next to what we just talked about, it doesn't even make any sense, like it's we would be crazy to do.
Shawn Coates:Well, and these are. We're talking about scholarships that are automatic, that students will automatically be evaluated for, and they're automatically up there.
Shawn Coates:They get in too right, so yes, so there's a, there's an application that needs to go along with it but to verify. But there are also competitive scholarships that students can apply for, and so we are looking at some other schools where she could you know she will be a competitive applicant, but it's a competitive process. So, for example, I I know she wants to be East Coast or West Coast and and so here I am suggesting a school that's in the middle of the country. But St Louis University is one of my very favorite schools. In fact, pre-pandemic my son was attending their Parks College of Engineering and they offer phenomenal opportunities and they are only going to look at one family's income and they will award grants. So she'll be, and I have several.
Shawn Coates:Well, I have a couple of students there right now. One of them is on a presidential scholarship, so his tuition is fully covered. Now he is paying room and board, but he's also been applying for other scholarships and grants that help cover that. So I want to say, when you look at the sticker price for that university, it's probably closer to 60,000. And I should know, since I was paying it a couple of years ago. But but I think he's paying 6,000 to go there. It's a lot less. Yeah, so, and it's a phenomenal university in this. I don't know. I love the city of St Louis, but I'm I've never been there.
Danielle Tantone:I'm from the West. Yeah, yeah, I think you know, cameron, and probably most high school students don't really know what they don't even know. They don't. They don't even know what's out there. I barely do. I mean, I'm in my forties and I still haven't even been to St Louis or been to a lot of these places. I think it's so easy to get an idea in our mind of what we think we want and to to close ourselves off to opportunities. You know, alabama just sounds like I come from.
Danielle Tantone:Alabama like just you. Just you don't know what kind of people are in Alabama, but the reality is, if, especially with this program, it's going to be people from all over the place, it's not going to be just people from Alabama.
Shawn Coates:No, it's going to be people that, and it's going to be people that have, that are high achieving students that are also seeking to be responsible stewards of their investment and and are taking and take a look at that. There was something that you just said that I wanted to revisit, and now I now I lost my train of thought. It's oh, I know what it was. So, especially with social media and teenagers today, they think everyone's life is absolutely perfect, and I remember seeing this image on Facebook and I talked to students about this all the time when you see this picture of this beautiful shiny apple that's looking in a mirror and you see the reflection of the beautiful shiny apple, but if you are behind it, you see that the apples cord out on the other side and rotting, and so students today think, um, think everyone else is going to have greater opportunities, everything's better in their world than in their own, and the reality is that's simply not true.
Danielle Tantone:That is a good truth, very true for all of us.
Shawn Coates:Well, it's funny. I was telling Cameron when I saw her last week. I said, as we start to go into this process, the senior year is approaching. Sometimes students get anxious, like all their friends are going to have everything figured out and they all know, are going to know where they want to apply and she's still evaluating. I said you are 95 percent ahead of all of your classmates. You have a resume. You have a rough draft of your college essay. We have been working on your common app. You're going into your senior year with that complete. You have colleges on your list. I promise you that if you pulled your friends other than in-state that you're probably not going to have an idea of where else they're going to be, applying.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, and that's the truth. So in-state there are some really good opportunities here in-state?
Shawn Coates:right, there are, yes, I mean. What's interesting is that Arizona students tend to think especially high-achieving Arizona students tend to think I've worked so hard throughout high school, asu and U of A admit anyone and that means they're not at top school. And that is absolutely not true. The Barrett Honors College is the top honors college in the country. I'm sure everyone's tired in the Valley of seeing the number one in innovation and there are phenomenal opportunities that are available. It's just that our in-state, our constitution, dictates that Arizona students should have the right to attend an Arizona university and if they meet minimum requirements they are admitted. So we have a high acceptance rate. That does not equate to because we have a high acceptance rate, no.
Danielle Tantone:I found it. I was shocked. When I first arrived at U of A all those years ago and my roommate was from California. I was like, wait what you chose to come to Arizona from California, why would anyone do that?
Danielle Tantone:Because I grew up thinking, you know, we lived. I wanted to live anywhere else, frankly, and then I did. After college, I graduated, I went to Concord, new Hampshire, which is about as far in every way from Arizona, and I realized then that I had grown up in a paradise of sorts. Despite the heat that I like to complain about and all the things, the lack of the four seasons it really is a beautiful place, a beautiful state, and those schools offer really amazing scholarships for top performing students don't they, they do.
Danielle Tantone:Yeah, cameron's not willing to consider it. Of course we'll choose one school for it.
Shawn Coates:We absolutely require yeah, we never know what can happen, and so it's very important to apply, have an in-state backup plan. But and the students are going to make the most out of their it's what they do when they're in college. They're either going to make or break their college experience based on their level of engagement. And a couple years ago I had a student who was very similar in academic profile to Cameron and she was a Hamilton high school student, top of her class.
Shawn Coates:She was waitlisted at Notre Dame and waitlisted at Duke and was rejected by USC and that was her number one school, number one school. So she went to U of A with the she'd be grudgingly attended at U of A. Her freshman year she rushed and she got involved in some different things but she wanted to transfer and so going, you know. So going into her sophomore year she reapplied to USC and she was admitted and she was so I mean just elated. But after she evaluated her options and was realistic and unemotional about it, she realized she could get two degrees from U of A, graduate, debt-free, go on to. She has wonderful internships, essentially why it didn't make sense to pay, you know, close to $75,000 to go to USC without you know and be full pay no you can go get a job in California if you want to after college and get paid twice as much Like that doesn't make any sense.
Shawn Coates:And it was. It was really hard for her. Her parents said we'll pay if she wants to. She's going to have to get some skin in the game, but we'll. We'll pay if this is what she ultimately wants. And I think it was very empowering for her to evaluate that not and I helped her with the evaluation and and we looked at it pragma, pragmaedly and in the end, when she decided, she decided her quality of life was just better here and it wasn't worth the investment. Now she'll always be able to say that she was admitted to USC Exactly.
Danielle Tantone:Well, I wish we could chat some more, but our time here is up. Sean, how can people find you if they're interested in talking to you about your services or if they want to engage with you on social media or whatever?
Shawn Coates:Certainly so I. My website is class101.com. Slash Mesa Gilbert. I'm on Facebook as Sean Gaylord Coates and I have an Instagram which is class 101 Mesa Gilbert. Probably the easiest way is just through the website and emailing me or reaching out to my phone. Sounds great. What's your email address? It's S Coates, c-o-a-t-s. There's no E in Coates for me at class101.com Awesome.
Danielle Tantone:Well, thank you for being here with me today, sean. I enjoyed chatting with you and I think we could chat about so many other things, and please like follow the podcast. Piece of Work with Danielle Tantone, and my book is available on Amazon. Piece of Work, if you're interested. Thank you for being here. Thank you for inviting me.