The Party Within: Reclaiming Connection in a Lonely World with Evan Cudworth

Are modern social trends actually making us more isolated? Danielle Tantone invites party coach Evan Cudworth to discuss the intersection of community, recovery, and resilience. Moving past his background in the underground music scene, Evan shares how he developed a coaching practice aimed at helping adults refresh and reinvent their social habits.

Main Takeaways From This Episode:

* The Party Within: Evan details his 7-stage process that helps high-achieving adults stop relying on substances, vibes, or social media validation, shifting instead toward sustainable community building. 

* The Paradox of Boundaries: A critical look at how hyper-individualism and individual boundaries are inadvertently lowering social trust and creating a culture of fragility.

 * The 5R Method vs. The Upward Spiral: Danielle and Evan compare their respective coaching frameworks for overcoming life's major disruptions, from health diagnoses to relationship endings. 

Tune in to hear a deep dive into the mechanics of human connection, featuring a live coaching session that demonstrates how to transition from isolation to active social participation.

Learn more about Evan and his work: https://partycoach.me/

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Piece of Work, a Memoir
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Transcript

Danielle Tantone 0:00

Welcome back to Piece of Work. I'm Danielle Tantone, and today I'm joined by Evan Cudworth, who is, as far as anyone can tell, the world's first and only party coach. We're gonna learn about what that means. And he believes partying will save humanity. A nerdy UChicago graduate who came up in the underground rave and music scenes. Alongside his own struggles with validation, alcohol, and substances in the post-pandemic chaos, he created The Party Within, a seven-step framework for high-achieving adults who've been sold the lie that optimization and fun are opposites. Can't wait to learn more and dive into this conversation. Thanks for being here, Evan.

Evan Cudworth 0:40

Thanks for having me, Danielle. Let's party.

Danielle Tantone 0:42

Yeah, let's party. So a party coach. Okay. So first of all, I know from looking at your website and reading through some of your materials that this does not mean like a party planner we're not talking about events. We're talking about something a little different, but I love your use of the word party. It's-- I, I love the meanings of words and how we can play with them, and I love how you're doing that. Can you explain a little bit about how this came to be?

Evan Cudworth 1:10

Of course. So to start with, I love the meanings of words too, and I'm not necessarily trying to redefine party, but the word party means a lot of different things already, right? Interesting. And so what I love to start with is the word party is actually a contronym in that it means its own opposite. Interesting. So etymology of party, like what... Anyone listening to this, think of party, what does it mean to you? Maybe it, you think of, a birthday party, a child's get-together. Maybe you think, a rave or a thing like that. But- Drugs,

Danielle Tantone 1:41

alcohol.

Evan Cudworth 1:42

But-- Or alcohol. But a party we have a political party. We have a hunting party. And party actually ...Partir... to split, right? So the idea that there's a split off from something normal. But then once you have that split, there's this new belonging. It creates this new identity inside of that split. And so the idea that the word itself means both to split and to come together at the same time I think is a good way to, to start because the word is a paradox. And when people ask me what am I trying to do? Am I trying to get people to party more? What do I want? I honestly, I... the party is the coach. So whatever you're working on in your therapy, in your relationships with alcohol, with substances, if you are simply staying up in your head and you're not in the arena of life, you are, you're not participating. So I define party is to participate, right?

Danielle Tantone 2:39

That is so interesting and so deep. My mind is also adding a whole bunch of different things because I speak French fluently as well, and so partir in French is is to leave. But then it's also to make, to be part of something, to be so it's very fascinating. I love also, I, I do I'm into those paradoxes and those different meanings of words too. Even my memoir is called Piece of Work. We're all a piece of work, a work in progress, and a work of art. And then I, there's so many different things that come with that, just the word work. But I love it. Yeah. Okay. So how did you settle on... Tell me, tell us a little bit about your background and how you decided to be a party coach and what you do exactly as a party coach.

Evan Cudworth 3:26

Yeah. So I'm one of those people that I have mostly loved to party throughout my life. Although, again, grew up- a pretty nerdy kid, a classical musician a cellist.

Danielle Tantone 3:39

But, but- Wow,

Evan Cudworth 3:40

that's awesome.

Danielle Tantone 3:41

I just attended my daughter's fourth grade orchestra concert last night. She plays the cello. Oh, I'm

Evan Cudworth 3:45

sorry.

Danielle Tantone 3:45

She plays it... it's not her forte. Yeah. She's not gonna be a cellist, let's just say that. But anyway that's really cool. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt.

Evan Cudworth 3:55

No it's beautiful, and let's return to music because it's a really important, I think, tool. The idea of harmony and being a part of an orchestra versus, versus a soloist, but we can get into that in social life. But the long and short of it is I'm someone who I think needed attention- in a lot of ways. But also, loved to be on stage. I was an actor and musician, but also when I discovered partying, it was like this, it was switch where we were all on stage together. And when I got to college and I was dancing on tables at my fraternity- or when I would go to my first raves and festivals, it was like we were all on stage together. And this idea that my ego that needed to be filled up so much could suddenly become a part of, a part of- Yeah this collective, I thought was just like a really beautiful thing. And also, I have ADHD, I've had-

Danielle Tantone 4:51

Same

Evan Cudworth 4:52

addictions of every single kind from alcohol to cocaine, to scrolling, to, you name it. And the party scene became a place where I could, one, either use those substances and not be isolated, or two, just gave me a place I had the opportunity, I did two years fully sober and went to parties and festivals all around the world and was able to fully be myself and party without any substances or alcohol. So cool. And so long and short of it, the Party Coach idea came out of the pandemic. I was working in music in Los Angeles, and when I saw what the lockdowns did to myself and my friends and to, to humanity, I said, "There's... people don't wanna be lectured on loneliness. People don't wanna be lectured on you need to go connect." But if I can talk about parties and the many different kinds of parties, I don't have the right way. There's all different ways to do it, but partying is, partying will save humanity because it cuts through all of the kind of lecturing and finger-wagging that the wellness industry does to us.

Danielle Tantone 6:01

I love that. And I just listened to my latest podcast, which dropped today, and I say I love that all the time, but I really do love that. That is so cool. I need to come up with a different line though. I love

Evan Cudworth 6:10

that.

Danielle Tantone 6:12

It's a work in progress, right? That is so cool and like I said, so deep. So- What do you do as a party coach? What does that mean in practical speaking?

Evan Cudworth 6:26

Yeah. So there's three prongs of how I will connect with people. The first is there are some events. I've hosted many events in Los Angeles. I'm here in Chicago. I was running I have-- we have an event venue here that we'll do Sunday parties that are typically alcohol-free, but maybe THC licensed and things like that. So there's some of that. But the majority of what I'm doing is, one I'm creating content. I'm talk- just talking about these topics. And I do a lot of TikTok and Instagram, and I speak on it. But I get to talk about partying and get people thinking about that idea. But the core of my business is as a party coach, I help people like refresh and redefine their social lives. So I have this seven-stage process called The Party Within, which is essentially a journey from a consumption-based to a creator-based social life. So instead of thinking I need to consume alcohol, substances, or even vibes or content. A lot of people are going to social events, and they're going to capture content, or they need to be seen there. This is a switch from there's a party within all of us. I help people find out what that is for them, it's gonna be different for every single human, and how to refresh that process at any stage in your life. Whether you're 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, you're gonna have to reinvent what party means to you and what that party within is.

Danielle Tantone 7:45

I'm just smiling because you keep saying words that are, like so connected to what, to the work that I do. The w- word refresh even is the first step of my-

Evan Cudworth 7:54

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 7:54

little framework that I created. But I wanna hear more about your framework. What's the seven-step process?

Evan Cudworth 8:00

Yeah. So this process has roots in, you- probably alchemy and o- other similar s- like, seven-step processes where- you're breaking things down, but getting them- into their component parts, figuring out how they move back together, meld them back together, and you have something very different that arrives in the end.

Danielle Tantone 8:18

Yeah.

Evan Cudworth 8:19

The first couple stages are detoxify and I call it make peace with ghosts, which is this idea that we all have these ghosts of our pasts. And- and I'd say the most toxic drug that I see being used right now is nostalgia. And especially Millennials, but every- even on either sides of that, people are just obsessed with how things were in, 20 years ago, and people are just consuming this idea that the nostalgia is gonna save us. And, Interesting there's nothing wrong with that as a, as an ignition, but I'm very much in, in the future, in the present and future, of like- Yeah what are we creating? What are we doing right now? And so then the future processes are getting into the body. I just have something to They It's called a wellness bender, which is a 21-day habit challenge that- includes, whole foods diet, cold showers, dancing for three minutes every day, calling up your friends, having conversations, real conversations, complimenting strangers, things like this, that get you out of your head into the world. And then the last stages are actually creating your own tribe and building a party or a ceremony that is repeatable. So this can be anything from a walk club, a book club. I've had people start moon circles. All, anything that for you is going to be a sustainable, regenerative party that you're contributing into the world.

Danielle Tantone 9:43

That is awesome. Very cool. I have so many questions and so many different places we could go with this. It's fascinating. I don't know, what do you think? What do you wanna share?

Evan Cudworth 9:52

Well, I, look, before we got on, the, with The word resilience, I would love to dip in a little bit.

Danielle Tantone 9:57

Okay.

Evan Cudworth 9:58

Yeah, what has-- what does that word mean to you today? How are you practicing resilience right now?

Danielle Tantone 10:06

I think it means more than just getting back to where you were. My process, I call it the 5R Resilience Method. It's a five-step process, and the last step is rise. So you come to it from a higher place, so you're bouncing back better. You're becoming, you're rising up each time. So my process is Refresh, Renew, Release, Reconnect, and Rise. And I'm working on a book that's currently being edited, and it'll be published in the fall probably, called Resilient. And then working on a couple of different coaching packages and stuff. But the way I think of resilience is, we talk about it even in physical health. You need to stretch your muscles. It's basically, it's the stretch. It's the things that happen to us don't break us when we're resilient. They bend us, they stretch us they grow us. Yeah so that's what I think about. And so I think about it all the time. It's just, it's not just a buzzword. It's it's literally so important. I'm a full-time nurse, I'm an author, I'm a coach, and I think resilience is the thing that, that like I said, if you don't have it, you'll break when things happen to you. And things are inevitably gonna happen that aren't what you planned, whether it's a breakup or a diagnosis or a, just even having a baby. I work in OB nursing with m- new moms and dads that are, it's a happy day, but it's still a huge change. And so that's long answer. Long not very articulate answer. No, it's beautiful, and- You have resilience, like things like adaptability come up a lot for me. And- For sure

Evan Cudworth 11:47

I feel like we are-- there's a lot of messages out there in the world right now, at least on my TikTok feed, about like boundaries and-

Danielle Tantone 11:59

oh, but

Evan Cudworth 12:00

you touched

Danielle Tantone 12:00

on another- cut people off. And oh, you have so touched on a nerve with me. Yes.

Evan Cudworth 12:04

And, do what's best for you, and be smart. Yeah. And I lo- there's so much beauty in that. And I do think there's a lot of people that need to hear those messages. But what I see is a huge breakdown in social trust, especially among younger generations. They don't trust each other when they go out because everyone is, has-- we-- and we need to take responsibility for this. I'm done with blaming anyone older. I'm a millenial- I'll be 40 this year. I take responsibility for how the world is. All right? And I want-- I'm probably not gonna have kids, but I want my friends that have kids, I want them to grow up in a world where they trust each other, and they have places where they get to go to be resilient with each other, to be messy with each other, to not be in this panopticon of cringe where everything is, ugh, I don't wanna look that way, or, oh, I don't trust this person or let's protect this person's boundaries when- Humans are tribal animals. And yes, it's actually good that this tribe wants something different from that tribe but to break it down to a super individualistic level, I think is having the opposite effect that a lot of people want, which is they're not feeling resilient. They're feeling on an island by themselves. They're not able to go out and dance with their friends because they're so fragile.

Danielle Tantone 13:31

Yeah. I l- I-- see, I do love that. And you touched on something that I have talked about a lot. I don't know if you actually knew that I've talked about it a lot or just happened to just felt it or whatever. But boundaries, I think, is such a double-edged sword, because I think we, we call it, we call someone toxic and then just throw them out of our life, whether it's family, whether it's friendships, whether it's dating. Online dating is such a crazy thing. It's like someone says the wrong thing in the wrong moment, and you're just like, "Okay, there's another one." It's all-- everything's disposable. And I didn't grow up with that. First of all, my parents were divorced after 24 years of marriage, But they never disposed of each other. I was already an adult when they got divorced, but I grew up knowing that family is family. Even though my parents chose to, to divorce, and I, that was like the example that I saw. My grandma, my dad's mom, still considered my mom her daughter till the day she died. And I also moved a lot as a child and, I don't know where I'm going with this. But like I, I moved, we moved schools a lot of times by the time I was in high school. And so I was very adept at like making new friends, but I also really learned the value of keeping in touch and this was before social media. I'm about, I'm more than 10 years older than you, so we had to keep in touch with somebody to, to keep knowing what they're doing, and we had to reach out. And I know I just ta- I'm talking very circui- circuitously today, but I totally agree. I think that we are far too quick in this society to just, call people toxic and throw them out the door instead of- Yeah instead of, learning that we're, we are all a piece of work. Yes. But we're also a work in progress, and we're also a work of art, and we're also human, you're not perfect, I'm not perfect, and we mess up. And as parents especially, I am a parent. I'm a I have three daughters and, we don't get a rule book. It's not always easy. Parents get it wrong so much of the time but I can't even believe how often I've seen, kids, adult kids like, like basically ending cutting off all contact with their parents, going no contact with their parents 'cause they're toxic or whatever. I think that is such a devastating thing that we're doing.

Evan Cudworth 15:49

Yeah. Yeah, and I, again, I've not been in those situations. There's a, I think Schopenhauer, the philosopher basically says, like every philosopher is basically just a result of their own biases, right?

Danielle Tantone 16:05

True. And

Evan Cudworth 16:05

so I- Yeah, we are all

Danielle Tantone 16:07

experienced,

Evan Cudworth 16:07

Yeah, our own experiences are so many biases. And of course, like I'm somebody who found a lot of love and connection in the party scene, I'm gonna go become a party coach, right? Totally. And people who, had terrible experiences or maybe got assaulted at parties are gonna be like, "What the hell are you doing?"

Danielle Tantone 16:22

Yeah. Why would you do that?

Evan Cudworth 16:24

And so I've, I fully accept that people are gonna have different experiences. Learning that I'm not gonna resonate with everyone has been the hardest thing for me because I have this- Same. Same, 'cause you just wanna, you want everyone to love you. Yeah. And so that's there. But coming back to the resilience There's been a lot of loss and death and suicide and sickness and addiction- that I have been witness to- Yeah in my journey to this planet. And I lost my mom in my early 20s to cancer, and she was someone who was so resilient.

Danielle Tantone 17:07

I'm

Evan Cudworth 17:08

sorry. I see people moving through the... One of the things that helps me maintain resilience, and I talk about this a lot, is I'm somebody that, that often feels like I need to process things, like off alone. To having a deep conversation or like cuddling with people or being like, like that is not the way that I like to process things. And so that can lead to one of two things. One, that can lead to maybe some healing, but some isolation and that sometimes led to drug or alcohol use. But- Yeah the party scene for me provided a place where I had this community of other people who, a lot of other people who are also grieving and dealing with emotions- and things, and big heavy things, and we could be in the place and we could dance and we could stim, and we could be healed by this music and this sound. And I had a place that I could go seven days a week that could always accept all the chaotic things that I was.

Danielle Tantone 18:01

Yeah.

Evan Cudworth 18:02

And I think that's beautiful.

Danielle Tantone 18:04

It is.

Evan Cudworth 18:05

And somebody else will look at that and say, these places are toxic pits that turn people into addicts and that." And I s- I, I say I've seen, having spent a lot of time in recovery and around people like this the alternative is a lot of people end up, make happy lives and move things out of there. Yeah. And when you isolate people, they end up dead.

Danielle Tantone 18:30

Yeah. That is so cool that you have been able to find a way to party without the drugs and alcohol being the center of it. I I shared on one of my recent podcast episodes that my, my 17-year-old daughter has struggled with drug and alcohol abuse. And she has recently gone through recovery. She's six months sober. Yeah.

Evan Cudworth 18:54

Beautiful.

Danielle Tantone 18:55

She's doing great. Yeah. And she... But one of the things that we found after she, she went to, She went away to a residential place, but then she came back, and we found this thing called Full Circle that is basically, it's for teens and young adults, but it's a lot like what you described. Basically, it's a party, but it's a 12-step program. It's an enthusiastic 12-step program and I, what I loved most about it is that it keeps the party, but gets rid of the substances. And so these kids have a place to go and a social life and a social circle that with music and raves. They did a rave in the desert a couple weeks ago. They do- So cool get-togethers. They stay out late. There was a New Year's party. It's called Full Circle? Full Circle. Check it out. I don't know if I've heard of this. This is so cool. It is amazing. Yeah. You might even wanna get involved. Yeah. It's... and maybe you could cr- 'cause I've wondered if there would be something like that for adults who are in recovery. Yes. And I don't, haven't really found anything, so I think that this is fascinating because I have- You know, because I started talking out, talking about... So I've talked about resilience, I've talked a little bit about divorce, I've talked about breast cancer. My podcast has kinda turned into a hodgepodge of my experience basically and what I have, e- encountered in my life. Like you said, it comes from my own lens. But one of the subjects that I've landed on a lot because of my journey these last few years is recovery and addiction and stuff. So that's... I really do love that your, I l- I love the idea of still being able to party, because that's one of the things with whether it's a kid or whether it's an adult, a lot of the reasons why people use substances is to fill a void, is to self-medicate, and, because of a deeper problem. But a second reason is simply because it's fun and it allows you to feel good and be be more yourself and all those things. So if you can take the dangerous, substances out and still keep that fun is so powerful, I think.

Evan Cudworth 20:54

Yes. The word fun is, It's also quite difficult because we- we actually don't know. Science doesn't have a really good definition of what fun is.

Danielle Tantone 21:07

Oh, interesting.

Evan Cudworth 21:07

A-

Danielle Tantone 21:08

It's probably different for everybody

Evan Cudworth 21:10

it's quite different for people. At different seasons of our life it can be different. I'm, I self-identify as a nerd. I s- used to be the most fun thing for me was a library on a Friday night- with my books, right? And then boom, one day I wake up and it's, instead I wanna be, in a crowded club with a bunch of people. And the relearning to have fun with books has been a big journey for me the last couple years. But it's, I think it's like faith, that fun cannot be defined, I think is- is important. Yeah. And why I don't promise people that I can help them have fun, just the way I don't think, a priest could promise you that you they'll provide you faith. But I can... I get asked about fun a lot, and I think- Yeah it's this secret energy source that wellness industry and politics and a lot of what is, a lot of the engines of what drives social media these days is secretly like anti-fun or doesn't want- those, want, doesn't want it to exist. And people still will find ways to do it. And it se- it will always seep through, and it will always- Yeah move out. But I think and COVID on top of it, there's just, people wanna have fun again.

Danielle Tantone 22:37

Yeah. And I think what you're, what you've said and what I've seen on your, in your content is that fun and seriousness and depth don't have to be adverse things. They're not opposed to each other. To me, to, recording this podcast is fun, and then the fact that it's gonna be out there and then I'm gonna take clips from it and put it on social media is fun and cool. And the fact that I'm, that we're talking on Zoom across the country and we didn't even know each other, and somehow you found me, and we are so similar in our views, and yet we're coming from a different place to it, and- I think it's fun. Like how is that not fun?

Evan Cudworth 23:17

Yes. And it's, there's a tweet that I really like. It's talking about one of the reasons to party or to socialize, to be out there is it increases the surface area for, of luck to hit you.

Danielle Tantone 23:30

Love that. And- Increases the surface area of luck to hit you.

Evan Cudworth 23:34

People are always like, "Evan, how did you end up th-" I've lived 20 lives. I've gotten to live... I grew up in Chicago, went to school here. I landed a job. I convinced them to move me to New York. I worked in Rockefeller Center. Oh. And then I found a job in Shanghai. I bumped around theater. I, I had a startup in Cleveland, and then I, I- Wow had an acid trip at Burning Man, and I moved to LA. And then I worked in music, and I worked in, And I was also an actor. And I was, and I've done all those things. Neat. And then I started TikTokking, and then I had a reality show. And like, all of these things. And people are always like, "How does that happen?" I was like, "I just show up. I show up." And I show up when I even feel like I don't belong. But the surface area for luck to hit me is really high.

Danielle Tantone 24:20

I agree completely, and I've never put it that way, but that's so important. You gotta put yourself out there. You gotta be in places where you're gonna meet people and where you're gonna make those connections. And then when you make a connection, you have to say so- you know, you have to take an action.

Evan Cudworth 24:38

Yes. What about- and it carries, yeah, it carries a lot of risk, too. And I wonder if- and tying this back to resilience-

Danielle Tantone 24:44

Yeah

Evan Cudworth 24:44

I've learned to be resilient because sometimes my showing up has caused me to burn out. It's caused me to be in bad, I won't call them toxic relationships, but I've been in relationships or partnerships or things that, looking back, I was like, "Oh my gosh, what was I thinking?" Right? But I, because of those experiences, I'm always... i... Growth for me is an upward spiral of often I'm returning to the same lessons, but I'm a little bit higher each time- Yes as I cycle upwards. Yes.

Danielle Tantone 25:16

Yeah.

Evan Cudworth 25:16

And that's resilience to me, is the ability to keep spiraling upwards instead of, I think earlier on in my life, I would stumble down the stairs, and I would tr- I would sh- push the boulder back up again, and I'd stumble down the stairs again. And now the tools that I have allow me to spiral upwards.

Danielle Tantone 25:37

That's a great an- analogy, too. I that ties in right with mine, but it's a different way of saying it, spiraling upward. So earlier you said... Oh, I, a couple things you said that I wrote down. I've been taking notes. I love this one. You said you, you focused on you need to process alone in isolation, and so you're, I would a- assume you would identify as an introvert

Evan Cudworth 26:02

I don't, I'm a Scorpio Or

Danielle Tantone 26:03

an extroverted introvert

Evan Cudworth 26:04

I'm a scor- I'm a double Scorpio.

Danielle Tantone 26:06

So- So you got

Evan Cudworth 26:07

a little

Danielle Tantone 26:07

bit of everything in you

Evan Cudworth 26:09

I've got a little, I just I need to constantly be transforming. And- and that, that requires me to go to retreats, right? And go to- festivals and be- in relate- and be be there. But I know that I will not receive what I need from that experience until I have processed it.

Danielle Tantone 26:27

I hear you. I agree.

Evan Cudworth 26:28

But I can't- No, that's huge but I can't stay, 'cause I can read forever and sit and just process and think and overthink, and I will go manic. I will become anxious because I will try to over-process things. So I don't know. I'd call myself an ambivert.

Danielle Tantone 26:43

Yeah. I'm the same. I w- I've always identified as an extrovert. I've always been an outgoing, bubbly person, but I also manage to sit and write a book, and I also need to process alone. I l- to walk, I like to think. I spend, I need a couple hours in the morning to myself before everyone else is awake. So I agree that even though anybody who knows me would assume I'm 100% extrovert, and I do like to process things out loud even in an argument or a, I also need the time alone. But I m- I move very quickly to action. And that's partly my nature and partly a learned response and a learned success tool, because I think you can think of, you can, overanalyze and just never do anything. At some point you've gotta try it out, and action breeds clarity, I think- Yeah in most things.

Evan Cudworth 27:33

Yes. Does this resonate with, this is just coming to me too, but, we're both coaches. I think one of the reasons why it's maybe more difficult for me to experience that transformation in groups is because I'm actively either consciously or subconsciously transforming the people around me. And I'm very concerned about how they're experiencing this thing. And I like to sp- I love- Oh, true to spend time with people that I... And I'm really concerned with the group and everyone's there. Yes. And if I'm in the group, I'm more concerned with what they're getting out of it than what I am.

Danielle Tantone 28:05

Yeah.

Evan Cudworth 28:05

And then when I leave, I can figure out what I got with it.

Danielle Tantone 28:09

Yeah. Definitely. I do the same thing. I think there's, there, there's maybe something to the fact that we're both, led to coaching is that we probably have some kind of an innate coach in us that just, that's how I think. I think of as a helper, as a, in terms of, yeah, what other people are getting from this. Absolutely.

Evan Cudworth 28:29

So a journey for me has been to move from- A fixer. Someone who would put, try to fix things where I wasn't asked. Yes. Which would get me in trouble. I've

Danielle Tantone 28:42

done

Evan Cudworth 28:42

it. To being better, if not perfect. I'm much better at waiting until my services are requested. Yeah. But yeah. What's that journey been like for you?

Danielle Tantone 28:52

It's hard. I we literally talked about that on the podcast that I just listened to this morning. A- as parents and as a coach, I've found myself doing that in friendships where yeah, you don't ask, "Would you like some ideas?" Or, "Would you like my advice?" You kinda just jump in. And some of the, some of I, what I said on that last podcast was some of it comes from a, an insecurity actually when I think about it is that like I'm afraid they're gonna say no, so I don't even offer them the option. I just- offer my services or offer my advice. And so yes I'm very much a work in progress on that because A- as a nurse, you're part of my job is educating the new parents and just offering advice and diagnos- not diagnoses, but a treatment for the issue at hand. And I, so I very much identify with being a helper and being an action taker and just jumping in and taking action, and that is not always welcome. So h- how, what was your question? How have I, how has the journey been? Like I said I'm in the part of the journey where I'm recognizing that it's a very real thing that currently I have struggled with. And it's hard when you feel like you have something that can help someone. It's almost like, Christian people who are, like, wanting to share the gospel. It's like they, th- to them, it's like they're not trying to be pushy or annoying. They really believe that they have something that, that everyone needs and that it's life-changing and it's, you're, you need it desperately, and it's hard to hold it back because when you feel like you have something that can help somebody. So it's a constant, battle. Yes. And I, as somebody who does tend to talk first and think later, I've had, I definitely have grown a lot in that and especially in the workplace and with my kids. I've learned to take a breath, listen. Part of it is that 5R Resilience Method. It's that first step, that Refresh is just like you refresh a computer screen, turn it off, turn it back on, take a breath, pause. Don't just immediately react, and that is not my default at all, so it's-

Evan Cudworth 31:10

Yes. That's a big part of recovery language. Like pause when agitated. My first thought is usually

Danielle Tantone 31:18

Not

Evan Cudworth 31:18

the correct one. The humbleness of that I can be a coach, but in some ways I can't manage my own life. Or that when I'm purely left to my own self-will, that even if the decisions themselves are rational, I have a lot of evidence that when stacked on top of each other, if I'm just trying to do everything by myself with my own will, that the cumulative result of those decisions is usually not good for me, and it's definitely not good for other people.

Danielle Tantone 31:51

Yeah. I was thinking as you were talking about being a party coach, and I was writing down a bunch of notes and stuff, that it might be fun, and this is a little bit impromptu if you would, if we would show an example on this podcast like if you would coach me. I don't know- I would love it.

Evan Cudworth 32:09

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 32:09

I don't know how we can come up with a scenario or if you would just, if you wanna just jump in. Yeah. And how, yeah, what can we... So show me an example of how that would go down.

Evan Cudworth 32:20

Yeah. I, one of the first questions I always love is just, what's working and not working in your social life right now?

Danielle Tantone 32:27

That's a deep question. I feel really good right now because honestly, a- about a month ago, I was really struggling. I had unexplainably and unexpectedly lost a couple... specifically one dear friendship. Like my friend, a girlfriend just stopped talking to me. And I really didn't, I really still don't 100% know why. I think it maybe stems from some of what we just discussed, where maybe I overstepped or was too pushy or she... I don't know, truly. And it was very hurtful. Like I, 'cause you... I don't know. I think I'm pretty good at... I've been divorced three times. I've been in lots of romantic relationships, and when those end, I'm pretty good at bouncing back pretty quickly and just coming to terms with the, why it didn't work and feeling okay. But for some reason, this friendship breakup was very was harder than... So that was just one friendship, but that wasn't the first time that this has happened in my life. And so I felt like I did some, thinking through all my history, and I'm like what am I do- I must be doing something that's pushing people away, or maybe it's just, that I'm growing and I..." What is it? And so I've, so I have felt sad about losing friendships that were once close or just not having the type the type of friendships or the depth of friendships that I would like to have.

Evan Cudworth 33:59

Yeah. Beautiful. So yeah, feeling like there's de- like intimacy or depth that's falling away- as a result of who knows what that cause is. When you love a party? What are the takeaways that you love about that party? Is it the connections or is it the letting go? Is it feeling free? What do you love about the feeling of a party?

Danielle Tantone 34:30

Again, I'm, so I'm trying really hard to visualize a party And it's interesting. I think, and I'm this is on the fly, but I've had some conversations with some friends recently, 'cause I have a friend who's really introverted but yet loves being in crowded places. We were at a concert recently, and I was like, "That's so interesting that you, you really like alone time, but you love being here." And he's I can people watch, and I can I can be not seen. I can be..." And I was like, "That is interesting," 'cause that is the opposite for me. I like to be seen, and I like to be known, and I like to connect with other people. So even though I'm a, I'm outgoing and love being on stage, I also have a background with musical theater and a lot of the performing. Even though I love that kind of being seen, I really like when somebody... when we see eye to eye, and somebody sees me and connects with me, and then I see them. I don't know if I answered the question right. Yeah. Yeah,

Evan Cudworth 35:30

beautiful. Yeah. So th- there's what? That moment of deeper connection that we can get at a party-

Danielle Tantone 35:37

Yeah

Evan Cudworth 35:37

typically. Maybe in the room, and it's boom, we zero in on each other. Yeah, that you connect with

Danielle Tantone 35:40

one person even though there's all this other stuff happening.

Evan Cudworth 35:45

Yeah. So-

Danielle Tantone 35:46

But I also like the dancing, and I like the music, and, I guess it depends on what type of party we're talking about.

Evan Cudworth 35:54

Of course, and remember, we're talking about a word that's a paradox, right? We're talking about a dialectic essentially, right?

Danielle Tantone 36:02

But I remember something that's very interesting is that as much as I'm an outgoing party, life of the party type of person, I remember in my younger years, like being very young in my teens and 20s, and going to like a club or somewhere where... and absolutely hating, being miserable, like being bored at a club where it's dark and the music is just that, that, ugh, like old not EDM, but ugh, like techno- Yeah, like

Evan Cudworth 36:34

techno.

Danielle Tantone 36:34

Yeah. Yeah that just wa- I wanted to crawl out of my skin. It was not pleasant at all. It used to be smoky back then, too, and I didn't really like that. Now you can't smoke inside, so it's better. But so it's interesting that somebody who likes music and fun and laughter and light, I don't like, I didn't like that. I felt very alone there.

Evan Cudworth 37:00

Yeah.

Danielle Tantone 37:01

Almost depressed. It was very weird.

Evan Cudworth 37:04

Yeah. So yeah, let's, I'm just, we're just, again, sticking together some of these patterns. This desire for this intimacy, but some of it seems to be falling off for some reasons. When we're in a a party environment and there's not that opportunity to connect, when there is just like this monotony and loss of that sense of one-on-one connection, that there's something there. Yeah. What is your relationship to a dissolved ego or becoming a part of something bigger?

Danielle Tantone 37:38

I don't know what my relationship to that is. I definitely identify with that. I've heard of that.

Evan Cudworth 37:46

Yeah. I

Danielle Tantone 37:46

Try to do that. I don't know-

Evan Cudworth 37:48

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 37:48

how successful I am.

Evan Cudworth 37:49

Yeah. So this is it, right? Are you familiar with that the phrase they used it in White Lotus, I think it was last season, but are we the drop of wave in the ocean or are we the whole ocean, right? Love that. Yes. And that level of spirituality, right?

Danielle Tantone 38:04

Yep.

Evan Cudworth 38:05

And I think sometimes life is giving us the experience of if we've had these intimate relationships and maybe those are falling away, is there an opportunity to become the ocean? What, what is so s- boring and scary about being a part of something where, where- Part of the

Danielle Tantone 38:30

one. Yeah

Evan Cudworth 38:30

part of the one. Yeah. What scares that? What's scary about that?

Danielle Tantone 38:33

I don't think anything does, and I

Evan Cudworth 38:34

think-

Danielle Tantone 38:37

Like I said at the beginning I feel like we're talking about this a- after I've already kind of-

Evan Cudworth 38:43

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 38:44

evolved and worked through it. But I think what you're saying is what I've been learning is that, it's okay. Like it's The, I think like letting go of, like letting go of all those expectations of how people are gonna be and what roles they're gonna play in your life and-

Evan Cudworth 39:04

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 39:04

how things are gonna play out is really important and just reminds me of- Have you read,

Evan Cudworth 39:07

Women Who Run With Wolves?

Danielle Tantone 39:09

No. Are you

Evan Cudworth 39:10

familiar with that? Okay, write this down. No. Oh, yeah. I don't

Danielle Tantone 39:12

know.

Evan Cudworth 39:12

I think this might be cool for you.

Danielle Tantone 39:14

Okay. I will

Evan Cudworth 39:15

check that out. It's the, are- you're familiar with the hero's journey?

Danielle Tantone 39:18

Sure.

Evan Cudworth 39:18

That's right. So Joseph Campbell wrote it, which is the masculine version of- How do we find purpose in our place in the world? And this woman wrote, it's w- I think it's called Women Who Run With Wolves. Okay. But

Danielle Tantone 39:29

it's

Evan Cudworth 39:30

The feminine version of that, which I relate to a lot more. Okay. Which is this kind of like the wild woman, like needing to be free, but there's not really a linear journey to this. That there is a, you might call it like Dionysian this like primal desire to dissolve the ego and become a part of, to be wild, and to let ourselves go and to be accepted into that that sometimes the world is inviting us to, to not have a linear direction. Of I'm trying to grow here. But actually to come back to, I'm just a part of nature. Yeah. And it's okay to love exactly where I'm at and not grow at all. Yeah. And just be.

Danielle Tantone 40:12

That's good. Yeah, that's good. I definitely struggle with that because I'm a very, Yeah even though I'm a very spiritual person, I'm also very type A, like- Yep goal-oriented, and I have a lot of big goals and aspirations and things that I wanna accomplish in many different areas at the same time. Yeah and so when I have a day... I've also, I'm very in tune with my own energies up and down, and when I have a day where I'm maybe not feeling as, quite as energetic, I've had, I have to r- I really struggle with it, but I have to learn to just be okay with that and be like, "Okay, today I'm just gonna be. I'm gonna do a cold plunge. Maybe I'm gonna do, maybe go for a walk, and I maybe won't get down the 50 things on my to-do list today, and that's okay."

Evan Cudworth 40:52

Yeah. So my last piece of the party coaching would be is, ultimately my ask of you would be- Can you go help somebody else feel what we were just trying to feel? Help... Maybe that's literally finding, some- they have day dance parties, right? Yeah. Like an ecstatic dance, right? And instead of going what can I get out of it?" Going there and figure is there somebody else who's anxious or feels there? That's a- And helping that person let go of their ego and become a part of, become the wolf. Helping them do it will help you do it, too. That's true but when you help somebody else, it makes it more concrete for you. 'Cause when I just... If you just try to get it for yourself, it'll be a little bit tough. But that would be my invitation for you is help somebody else let go.

Danielle Tantone 41:42

That's awesome. And see what

Evan Cudworth 41:43

that feels like.

Danielle Tantone 41:43

That's awesome. And I do tell other people to do that, and it's interesting that... And I think I do it automatically, but, that's a good, that's a good advice. All right a personal question for you. Yeah. You said you probably won't have kids. Yeah. I'm curious about that. I'm curious about your... Yeah, if you wouldn't mind sharing. If it's too personal, no, just let me know and I'll shut up about it. No, of

Evan Cudworth 42:05

course.

Danielle Tantone 42:06

I won't...

Evan Cudworth 42:06

Yeah. There's many... those, when I saw other people just desiring that as a concept, as a thing, it's just, it was not something that was desired. So I am gay as well. I think that's part of it. I do, I love kids, and recently I like them a lot more. I think I was closed off in the past. But this is where we can get into the spiritual stuff. But I have had experiences and through a lot of prayer- I'm pretty, pretty sure of what my purpose is here, and like I'm really sure that I'm living

Danielle Tantone 42:45

it. That's awesome. Yeah. That's beautiful.

Evan Cudworth 42:48

Yeah.

Danielle Tantone 42:48

Yeah, you don't... I don't think it's the path for everyone, for sure.

Evan Cudworth 42:51

Yeah. And that I, I feel this radical responsibility for all, like, all the children, right? Beautiful. And I don't know if I would feel that as much if I had to focus that on one. And so I think that's why evolution creates different types of people, is that there is this more shared collectivist element to, to what I feel.

Danielle Tantone 43:14

That makes sense. That makes sense.

Evan Cudworth 43:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Tantone 43:16

And also, you never know. Life is long.

Evan Cudworth 43:18

I completely don't know. You never know. Yes. I'm very open to all that.

Danielle Tantone 43:22

You might meet someone who desires to have your own children, and that might become a possibility. There's all sorts of ways. Nice. Anything else you wanna leave us with? We've been talking for a little bit now. I li- I do wanna say what we said before we hit record, that it's hilarious that I'm sitting here in a tank top. It's 80 some degrees outside, and you're wearing a cap- Yes and a long-sleeve shirt buttoned up to the top.

Evan Cudworth 43:49

Yes. It is, it's about... It's always a beautiful day in Chicago. I love the city.

Danielle Tantone 43:54

I was born in Chicago, by the way. Outside of Chicago. Yes.

Evan Cudworth 43:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Tantone 43:58

Small world.

Evan Cudworth 44:00

I just, yeah. For anyone who's listening to this, I love the world. I'll guess I'll close with this, one of my other favorite quotes Our natural state is ecstatic wonder. We should not settle for anything less.

Danielle Tantone 44:14

I love that. Our natural state is ecstatic wonder. We should not settle for anything less. Whose quote is that? Did you say-

Evan Cudworth 44:19

So it's a com- like Alan Watts, it gets appropriated a lot, but I think he stole it from this group of students down in Florida who were creating some sort of a, some spiritual thing. But I like that because no matter where you're at in life, you could be going through cancer or death, or you just got a huge raise or whatever, if you can meet that moment with ecstatic wonder

Danielle Tantone 44:47

I couldn't agree more

Evan Cudworth 44:48

it's the best.

Danielle Tantone 44:49

Yeah.

Evan Cudworth 44:49

And I've, I almost never wake up with any other feeling- Yeah for a long time because I don't know, the experiences in my life gifted me that ecstatic wonder. And I'm just, I'm really grateful for that. And that's what partying, I believe is a very tangible way for us to experience that. It's- is it the only way? No. But if you're listening to this and you're stuck, and you've maybe done, been doing the therapy or the fitness or whatever, and it's just not working for you, I offer there's so many different ways to engage with party culture that ecstatic wonder can be the fuel for whatever's next for you.

Danielle Tantone 45:28

I think that's a great thing to think about as you go toward the next thing in your day or in your week. I try to do that even at the hospital when I get floated to another... i've been floated to the ED to be a patient sitter, where I'm literally tasked with watching somebody who might be suicidal, might be just a danger, just, and I think, "What am I here for?" It's like, there's a reason why I was put right here to be with this person right now in this moment, and it helps something that might be a difficult, boring, task that you have to do become something wonderful.

Evan Cudworth 46:06

Yeah.

Danielle Tantone 46:06

Yes.

Evan Cudworth 46:07

That's beautiful.

Danielle Tantone 46:08

So where can we find you? Tell us about your socials and your website and-

Evan Cudworth 46:13

Sure. So you can find my website's partycoach.me, and then if you search Party Coach on TikTok or Instagram, you can usually find me dancing-

Danielle Tantone 46:25

I'm gonna have to follow you

Evan Cudworth 46:26

quick. Awesome and just silly stuff. Yeah. I try to keep it pretty light, but it also gets really deep and crazy, too. Again, a lot of Scorpio energy flying around, so

Danielle Tantone 46:34

That's amazing. If you find yourself in the Phoenix area-

Evan Cudworth 46:38

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 46:38

you'll have to reach out, and if I come to Chicago, I'm gonna-

Evan Cudworth 46:42

Yeah

Danielle Tantone 46:42

find you, too. It's been great talking with you. I-

Evan Cudworth 46:45

Thank you so much, Danielle. Yeah.

Danielle Tantone 46:47

Sometimes I think of, putting this podcast on the shelf again because I have so many other things on my plate, but conversations like this bring me back to why it's so important. I just, I love getting to meet people and hearing different perspectives and that just open up my mind and my heart to this vast universe that we live in. So thank you.

Evan Cudworth 47:09

Amen to that. Party

Danielle Tantone 47:10

on. All right. If you liked this episode, share it with somebody who might benefit with it. Sorry, that didn't come out right. That's all right. Thanks for listening. Till next time.