Red Carpet to Red Wine: Embracing the Pivots You Never Planned for with Danielle Frank

Career pivots. Relationship pivots. The life you thought you were supposed to have — and the one that's actually waiting for you. In this episode of Piece of Work with Danielle Tantone, host Danielle Tantone sits down with author and wine industry veteran Danielle Frank for a candid conversation about resilience, reinvention, and the courage it takes to walk away from what's not working.

Danielle Frank's story is the ultimate case study in pivoting with purpose: VP of International PR at Miramax at 27, she left New York for LA, quit a toxic job without a backup plan, discovered a passion for wine and spirits, and built a career spanning two decades at Bacardi and Moët Hennessy. She also called off an engagement, rethought her path to motherhood, and found — to her own surprise — that the life she has is the life she was meant for all along.

In this episode you'll hear:
— Why she says "when something is costing you peace, that's your answer"
— How each pivot builds your confidence to take the next one
— The story of Madame Clicquot, history's original female entrepreneur
— A live reading from her book A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting — a tongue-in-cheek adult children's book that pairs wine wisdom with raising kids who aren't a-holes

Connect with Danielle Frank and grab her book at daniellefrankauthor.com. 

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Transcript

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Welcome back to Piece of Work. I'm Danielle Tantone, and today I have another Danielle on with me, my new friend Danielle Frank. She is an author, and she also works in the wine and spirits industry. But her book is called A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting: Blending Vineyard Wisdom with Modern Family Life, and it's served with wit, warmth, and a generous pour. I had a chance to kinda glance through her book a little bit, and she's gonna tell us more about that, but we were just talking about the main part of her message that she wanted to share with my listeners today is just the pivots of life and how life doesn't always go as planned, and sometimes the path that you end up on turns out to be even more interesting that you, than you could have imagined. So welcome, Danielle, and feel free to share a little bit more about your background and, whatever you want to with us right now. Yeah. Thank you for having me on your great podcast. And yeah, as we were chatting, and, I, a- as you mentioned, I wrote this book, but the backstory I think is what really is so interesting to listeners out there, especially your listeners who are, all all of us today are going through some sort of, exploration of resilience, personal growth, life pivots. And that's at the crux of my story. My story is rooted in transformation and certainly one that didn't happen overnight, moving from New York to LA, giving up a cushy career in entertainment PR. I say I traded red carpets for red wine, and I- segway, segued into the wine and spirits industry, taking a big step back, starting from the bottom and working my way back up. And a relationship pivot with walking away from an engagement and realizing that, the path of motherhood might not happen for me. So all these things have just been chapters in what has become the story of my life. And through it all, I've just really learned to embrace the life pivots and embrace the change and learning that, when you embrace it and when you realize that the life you thought you were gonna have doesn't match the checklist, it can be really freeing and really empowering and that's what it's been for me, for sure. That's a very refreshing, refreshing approach and a refreshing idea. And obviously one that I embrace as well as anybody who's listened to a couple of my episodes would know. So let's start with, let's talk about one of those things to start with. I don't know if you wanna start with the the career. I'm curious, so you sa- you said red carpets to red wine. Tell us a little bit about where you started and where you are and how you got there. I love hearing people's paths and stories. So I was, I'm from New York. I was living in New York City in my 20s, what a time, working at Miramax Films doing their PR- I did the same thing, by the way. I also lived in New York City in my 20s. Yeah. Yeah. It's just- I think my 20s were probably a few years before your 20s though. I feel like I'm- I don't know. I just turned 52. Oh my gosh, we're like the same age. I'm gonna be 52 this year. Oh, see? Danielle's 52. You look very young. You look very young. I- Thank you I think I look relatively young, but I think you may look even more younger. You do look very young. I say it's probably 'cause I don't have kids that ages you for sure and no, I say it's all the alcohol I drink, it acts as a preservation system. No. I say that in jest 'cause I work in the wine and spirits industry. I'm not an alcoholic. But yeah, I was working for Miramax Films doing entertainment or international PR, so- Wow so we were both running around the city in our 20s. But I was working at, the heyday of Miramax Films when it was in its prime going to the Cannes Film Festival, Venice Film Festival- Oh, fun Berlin. Oh. I wish I would've ran into you in New York. That could've been fun. And it was just, it was a blast, and it was an extraordinary time, and I have amazing stories. I'm very upset we didn't have cell phones back then with cameras 'cause, I do have some pictures- Oh, true but man, the stuff I could've caught. It was amazing. And it was, I was getting towards my late 20s and everybody, all my friends were starting to go down that path of, oh, nearing 30, have to be married, have to, have kids soon. And that's something I imagined in my future, but all of a sudden I was like, wait, I'm traveling the world with this job and I'm a curious person and I want to see the world. And I was going to LA all the time for work, and I just, I've always loved LA and had a fascination with Los Angeles. And I was like, wait a minute. Not yet. It's, I'm not ready for that yet. Not ready. So I broke up with my boyfriend- quit my job at Miramax and moved to LA. Some of that comes with a little bit of naivety, right? I didn't know- I'm curious because I left New York earlier in the year of 2001, which is the infamous September 11th year, but I left in February. When did you leave New York for LA? So I left November 20- 2002. Okay. So that was part of it too. I was there for 9/11. My office was- Yeah down in Tribeca. The city after 9/11 too, it just started to feel really small. So that contributed to it too. It just didn't feel the same and, obviously bore a lot of memories and heartache. But yeah, just coupled with the fact that I was like, "I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready to just settle down." And I love Miramax but, Miramax i- especially in the entertainment industry, it's oh, they gave me a fancy title, V- VP of International PR at 27, but I was making nothing- Ah living in a studio apartment, so I was like, "All right. I'm gonna move to LA." So relate. Yeah. When I... So just to interject, Yeah, please 'cause it's so similar, I ended up in New York... first of all, I, I've had, I've also had lots of pivots in my career. But I had majored in journalism. I'm r- first majored in musical theater, and then I switched to journalism, and then I had... What did I do? Oh I went, I first moved to Concord, New Hampshire, and worked for AP, for the Associated Press. And then I moved back home 'cause I was like, "I'm not ready for that. That's too boring. I wanna do something different." And I was like, "Maybe I'll be a teacher." And I was a substitute teacher for a little while. Then I went and worked for Club Med. And then I was like, "Okay, I think I'm gonna study international business," 'cause I speak French and Spanish. So I did one semester at Thunderbird School of International Management here in, in Arizona, and I got an internship, a summer internship, in 1999 in New York City. And I thought, "That's cool. I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go do that. I'm not sure if I really like business school." And so I did that, and I worked for an international ma- an international marketing firm. Like similar, but not quite as glamorous as yours. But- the, at the end of the internship, I knew I wasn't gonna go back to school, and they offered me a job, and I think it was, like, $24,000 a year. Living in New York City, even in 1999, that was not very much money. Like- Oh, yeah. I mean- And then I was like- I think about it my friends and I we weren't eating ramen. We were going out to dinner. Nothing fancy, but... And we were going to the clubs. I'm like, I don't know how we did it. Yeah. You made it work. Yeah, you just don't have a lot of money. It's what you choose to spend your money on. You didn't have a mortgage. Yeah. And you weren't saving anything, that's for sure. So from there, I ended up not taking that job, but I did end up getting a job with L'Oréal Paris. L'Oréal. Oh. I was, like, the coordinator of the interna- international coordinator. Which sou- basically, I was an administrative assistant- in the international department. Yeah. But so it could have led to something exciting. And you did get to shop in their shop in L'Oréal, but it was really I think I paid $36,000 a year, so still not very much. Yeah. And then I became fascinated by real estate there. And my dad had been in real estate here in Arizona, and I was like, "Well-" Maybe I'll get my license here. And I did end up working in real estate. I actually worked for Barbara Corcoran for a little while. So I had also like you said, like so many fun experiences and cool things that I wish I had pictures of and Yeah, absolutely but we didn't have our phones with, our phones didn't have cameras and I know. Oh, that's the- Anyway, not to interject, but I just love- Yeah I love when there's like parallels like that, like we were- Absolutely there at the same time. Where did you go to college? The first time I went to U of A, University of Arizona. Oh, okay. Here in Tucson. I went to University of Wisconsin. Oh, no. No I haven't. I don't think I've ever been to Wisconsin, actually. I've been to a lot of the Midwest- Yeah states, but not Wisconsin. It's a great university. My niece actually just graduated from there, so she followed in my steps. Her father- Great went there as well, very cool. Yeah. So anyway, I yeah, I was just tire- restless and so I moved out to LA. I did have a job. There weren't any studio jobs at the time, but- one of the PR firms that rep talents, so I would travel with them and when we'd travel with the actors from the film to the festivals or the press tours, their publicist would be with them. So one of the agencies, they were looking for somebody, and I just, once I have it in my head that I'm ready to go I just wanted to go and I- Same it's like I knew, I didn't think I wanted to do personal PR, but it got me to LA, and so I came out here, and day one, I walked into that PR firm and I'm like, "What did I do?" Three of the publicists were in their office crying. I just, you know- Wow first off, that the agency was run by these two women. It was a very toxic environment. And personal PR is just not my avenue. No disrespect to those that do it. It's great. That's not for me. I don't care more about somebody else's life than my own life than, that somebody that I'm not related to. And it just wasn't my journey, and so I ended up, I do say that when I was at Miramax, sure, maybe I went out the night before and I woke up the next day and I was like, "Ah, I don't wanna go to work," but there was never one day that I had that pit in my stomach, that angst of not wanting to go to work. When I was at this PR firm, within three months, I can't tell you how many mornings I woke up with that ulcer-inducing pit feeling in your stomach. I don't think I would've stayed there three months, honestly. Yeah. And so- I don't have a very- Yeah big tolerance for something that's- I don't either just that wrong. And, I just know that my personal happiness, and especially when it's like work is, where we spend half of our lives. Absolutely. And I just realized that sometimes, the most empowering decision is acknowledging that the job or even a relationship or something that you're clinging to is costing you peace. So true. And I was like, this is not for me," and I left without having another job, which is very unlike me. I'm very type A. And I was, again, there's that naivety a little bit in it, that's, didn't have a mortgage, didn't have kids. I was like, "I'll be fine." And yeah, I just, somebody told, my sister told me about this she worked for an agency that worked for Bacardi in New York. And she told me they were hiring in LA. Nice. I was like, "Oh, wine and spirits sounds like a great industry." My sister loved this job. It was, like, one of the few jobs that she's absolutely loved. And yeah I started with, it was like a ver- I took a big step back. It was, like, back to my pay grade of the Miramax days. But it was, like, working from home, and you get a car allowance and an expense account. Oh, nice. I was like, "Oh, great. This'll tide me over until I figure out what it is I wanna do." But then I realized, the wine and spirits business is a fantastic industry, and I was very fortunate to work for, Bacardi USA for 10 years, which is a phenomenal company with phenomenal brands. And then now I've been working with Moët Hennessy next month is 12 years. Wow. So when you get to work for amazing companies, shepherding these brands with such history and heritage and And so classy, especially the one you're at now. It's so elevated. I would have... I just picture I don't know, fancy crystal and fancy dresses. Yeah, and and I love that they're all lifestyle brands, right? Yes. Veuve Clicquot and- Exactly it evokes an emotion out of you. People love the yellow or they, you know- or the champagne reminds them of an occasion that they had or the first time they tried Dom Perignon, like the romanticism of it all- Absolutely With these brands and their story and their history. So yeah, it's... So I, I've been working in this industry for, coming on 22 years. As, have I already said I'm 52, so we know I'm over 21. Yeah. But yeah, it's, Oh my gosh, I g- actually, speaking about that, I was buying some, an alcoholic beverage at the grocery store the other day, and it was cute. The guy looks at my... he has to card me. I'm like, "You would think I could just show you my gray hair and my wrinkles and that would be enough." And he said, but he looked at it and he's "No way that's true. Seven- 1974? No way that's true." And I was like, "Yeah." I know. I love when I- I love when I get carded. The best feeling. Yeah. Yeah yeah, so that's where I've been work-wise. And then yeah, it's just, it's all these life pivots, I say. And, then I had a relationship pivot where I was engaged and I broke that off. But I think, once you start to, once you start getting on that journey of one pivot to the next, like even just from moving from New York to LA, it's, you start to build your arsenal of that you can do it. You can do anything. Yeah. And you just have to lean into it and believe in yourself and know you got through it once, you can get through it again. And that's what guided me through the, through all the career pivots, that's for sure. Have you found it a little bit harder as you get older? Have you found yourself being a little less resilient or a little less able to bounce back, or do you feel like it's the opposite and you're actually more flexible? I think it depends. I hope to retire with Moet Hennessy. There's been a lot of reorgs the last few years and, as you can imagine also 52 years old, like I think if I lost my job, that would be really hard. It, that would be a struggle. I'd have to force myself to be resilient and get back out there, because obviously, I'm eye on the prize to retirement one day and thinking about my retirement plan. It's not so easy. People are not hiring people. They're hiring younger, paying less. So I think it would be very scary if I lost my job. But I would have to, pull up my bootstraps and, tell myself to get out there and you gotta do it. But yeah. I hope you don't lose your job, but I think you'd probably- be just fine because you have that entrepreneurial spirit. Just the fact that you're out there pitching podcasts and, talking about your book, and you have the writing ability, I think- I think a speaking ability, you could be an entrepreneur and do just fine, I think. Oh. Thank you. Yeah, let's hope so from your mouth to God's. But your job sounds amazing also. Yeah. Yeah. It- Are they hiring? Are they hiring? 'Cause maybe I need a fifth job. It i- it is great, but, some people are like, "Oh, what do you drink all day?" No, we don't drink all day. It's a job like everything else. Zooms, PowerPoints, presentations- analytics, but no it's phenomenal. Very cool. I am fascinated by the story specifically of Clicquot. I remember read- I read a novel couple, a year or so ago that was about her story of the Veuve Clicquot. Did you read the Madame Clicquot story? I think so. 'Cause there, there was a book by Tilar Mazzeo Fascinating. I couldn't put it down. That's the one they made a movie about. I highly recommend not watching the movie. The movie was terrible. Oh, that's too bad the book is fascinating. Madame Clicquot was just, I mean- Yeah. She I didn't know talk about the first female entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah. Her story is incredible. If you don't mind, just share a little tidbit for anyone who's listening who might not have not know her story, 'cause it's pretty amazing back in that day. Yeah. Back in that day, she took the helm of her husband's winery when she was 27 year old, 27 years old 'cause he passed away, and it was unheard of for a woman to, take over a champagne house, and she really revolutionized how we drink champagne today. She created the riddling rack. Yeah, how it's processed. Which is the tool that gets rid of the sediment at the bottom of the b- bottom of the glass of the bottle which is widely used still today. She created the first blended rosé. She also was super savvy, super savvy business woman. With all the embargoes with the wars she would do letter w- she would write letters to, people in Russia and say it was just she was writing friends, but that's how she did her, So she'd sold her product and made her sales. It's just, It's amazing it's incredible. The story is just absolutely incredible. Yeah. It really is. It's that's resilience. She she was in a really tight spot and yeah, in France, champagne was very... People in America don't even probably understand that champagne is from the Champagne region, like real champagne, and it's, has a, it had a very specific way- Yeah that everything had to be done, and she mixed it up, which- Like you said, was unheard of that a woman would even be doing it, let alone let alone- Let alone like- changing revolutionizing it. Yeah, she really was a powerhouse. It's, it's- Yeah her, that book by Tal- again, Tilor Mazeyo, fantastic book. Yeah. Don't watch the movie. I'll have to check it out. I don't know if that's the one I read or if it was a different book. It was not- It was a novel. It's called The Widow Clicquot I think that might be it. I have it right Widow Clicquot Okay. I'll check it out- Maybe okay. Yeah, and that's actually what Veuve means. It means widow in French. That's right. So is her name. There we go. Yeah. Yeah, sh- and I tell people Veuve rhymes with love. That's how you remember it, but Veuve is the widow, correct. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Alright so tell us about your book, Transitioning here How did you come up with this idea of writing a wine lover's guide to parenting when you're not a parent? So there's a lot of things that all came together. I wrote this about 14 years ago. I had just broken- Wow off my engagement with my fiance. He has kids from a first marriage, so I was a bonus mom for many years. I'm very involved with my niece and nephews' lives. I am Auntie Danielle to many of my friends' kids. So when I broke off the engagement, it was, there were other issues. But the main thing was, he had said he'd have a kid, but ultimately I realized he didn't want any more kids, and that was really important to me. And so now, I broke it off with him knowing that he didn't want kids. I want to do this with somebody that wants to have kids with me and... But at this point I'm now 37, 38, and, I'm realizing that path might not happen for me. But, the nurturing doesn't go away. I still want a seat at the table to how kids are raised because, there's a lot of bad stuff out there, and, kids, it's horrible the things you hear about the bullying and- Yeah and some of the things so I still just, I'm just somebody that's glass half full, and I just want to make the world a better place. And so I was watching my niece and nephew, and they were whining about something. They were young at the time, and, great kids, but of course every kid has the propensity to whine at some point, and- Yeah. they were whining about something, and I said, auntie Danielle drinks wine. She doesn't listen to whine." And all the pieces started to come together because, before that I've always had a creative writing outlet, and I was always... I was working on an actual children's book series because I love to rhyme. I'm good at it. And my children's book series was it was a series called Johnny R- Johnny's Remote Adventures, and each book takes him to a new country where he's learning about a kid his age, looks like him but, may dress differently and- Yeah talks differently and eats different foods. But we're all the same people. We all sleep under the same star skies because, you know- Beautiful this idealistic, idea that I have that I want to make the kids a, I want to make the world a better place, and it starts with kids when they're young. Trying to teach them, good behavior. And so this idea came because I was like, what if I can get to the parents beforehand?" They're the ones that really g- you know, teach their kids about manners and about being worldly. And at the same time, a book came out called Go the F to Sleep. It became wildly popular, and it opened the door to this new genre of adult children's books. So I thought, "Oh, wouldn't that be fun?" And I said, Aunt Danielle drinks wine. She doesn't listen to whine. Oh, there's so many fun parallels. And what if I create an adult children's book for parents so it parallels raising your kids to wine terminology, and every time I use a wine term, it gives the definition. So that's the other part of it. W- somebody who works- You're learning about wine and learning Yeah. So somebody... as somebody who works in the wine industry, I love the idea of making wine knowledge accessible, fun, easy to learn, approachable. So it all came together in this love letter to parents everywhere and yeah, as you say, I'm not actually a parent. But it's... You don't need to be a parent to know human behavior and human decency, like teaching manners- True and not to be a bully. And and as I said I'm surrounded by so many of my friends who are parents and sometimes when you're in the trenches, it's not so easy to see the things, th- right in front of you, right? Like- Yeah that the grape juice- Yeah you're drinking can one day be a fine Cabernet. Yeah. So I ha- Yeah this, fresh perspective. And just it's just meant to be, light, tongue in cheek, humorous. That sounds great. I wanna buy it. Tell us give me k- like a, an example. All right we're gonna maybe read from it. I think, yeah, I'll read you a chapter that- Maybe show it to us. That would be cool. So this is the- For those of you who are watching on YouTube this is the cover of Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting: The Fine Art of Wine and Whine Management. Very pretty. And this- Kinda looks like a classy, like- Yes. And this chapter is You Don't Want Your Kids to Ferment. So in wine-making process, the fermentation process is when you convert sugar into alcohol, right? So we think of sugar as something sweet. Alcohol can be harsh and biting. This is you don't want your kid turning from someone sweet into someone harsh and biting because they don't have manners. Okay. Manners are the key to it all. These lessons need to start even when they're small. Teach them this from day one before they start to crawl. You don't want your kid to be the sour grape in the bunch, turned into a spoiled brat that kids wanna punch. When they start talking, make sure they know thank you and please, and to always say bless you when they hear someone sneeze. Please and thank you are an absolute must. Without that, your child's a total bust." That's cute. 'Cause there's nothing worse than a child who has behavior that is crude, 'cause it'll continue as they're older and become someone who's rude. People don't take kindly to and aren't nice to those with attitude, because it's very off-putting and puts others in a bad mood, oftentimes causing confrontation and leads to a nasty feud, wanting to put a little bit of poison in your child's food. Is that really how you want your kids to be viewed? Wouldn't you prefer that they're someone who's wooed? Without manners, they'll ferment and turn into someone harsh and biting. They may turn into a kid who's rude, obnoxious, and always fighting. So teach your kids some manners and to have some heart and soul. Without that, your kid may well turn into an a-hole." That's so cute. Thank you. Love it. We don't want an a-hole. Yeah, so you know, it's a light, fun book. Would, would've been great for Mother's Day. Pair it with a bottle of wine, give it to your mom, or it's a great baby shower gift. You pair it with a onesie, you're done. So cute. Such a great idea. Aw, thanks. No, it's been fun. It's been fun. But, sometimes parents just need a li- a little moment to laugh, through the heaviness of it all. And obviously parenting is a very serious job, so hopefully it's just meant to have a little levity through it all. I love it. And I do love it. I know I say that all the time, but I do. All right. So we talked about moving location. We talked about job pivots. What about the relationship pivots, and what about the pivots in, like- Like deeper things, like you were thinking that you were definitely meant to be a parent, and then now that particular thing isn't looking like it's probably gonna be part of your life. And how has that, how have those deeper pivots landed, and how have you been able to navigate and bounce back and, rise to a better place with those? Yeah. I think the relationship pivot of course, that obviously changed the trajectory of, because I haven't gotten married and I, motherhood wasn't my journey. But, I also realized- something very important. While I was in the relationship I was very unhappy. I started to see how unhappy I was in the relationship. And as I said before I think when you have pivots, whether it's moving cross country or changing careers, you're building up your arsenal to give yourself the confidence to know you can do it, you can do anything. And, and that's what helped build up the relationship pivot. I realized how unhappy I was in it, and I was like, "This is not what it's meant to be, and I don't want to stay in something that's not serving me," and, and so it helped clarify my values quite- a bit. And the minute I broke up with him, I never cried another day. All of a sudden it was just like a relief, and I was so happy. I was so free. And a good example is one... as I said, it, the not having kids was just one of many things with this guy. W- the other thing was, he just, he was always chasing the party, always somebody that had to stay out to the bitter end and things like that. And, I was getting late 30s, and I was thinking of, "Okay, I'm ready to stop that, lifestyle and slow down and have kids." And I just rem- you know, I just, every time we'd go out it's "Oh, one more drink." That kind of person. That kind of mentality about everything. And I remember when I broke up with him and I was in my new apartment, and I was meeting some friends around the corner from where I live for dinner and I don't know, maybe it was, like, 9:00, 9:30, and I was like, "I'm tired. All right, I'm gonna go home. Bye, guys." And I remember laying in my bed that first night and looking up at the ceiling, and I was, like, grinning from ear to ear. And I was like, "I was tired, I went home, and here I am." And I didn't have anybody giving me crap that "Come on, one more," and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I really felt empowered. I was like, I'm, I wanna do what I wanna do. Of course, relationships are meeting in the middle and compromise and all that, but when it's not serving you and it's costing you emotionally... so it clarified my values quite a bit. And it and more importantly, it showed me what I do and what I don't want in a relationship, and what I will settle for and what I won't settle for in the future. And that sort of guided me along. My last serious relationship, I dated him for six years. We broke up right at August of 2020. Not really 'cause of COVID. His... with him it was like- He was push, he was somebody went from 0 to 60. The drinking started to become a problem. And that, because I was so empowered, I was like, "I don't need to deal with this." "I'd rather just be on my own than in something that's not making me happy." And I know that- Totally I know how happy I was when I did that last time, and so having gone through that, before, it just, it gives you the resilience and, Yeah like I said, it gives you the armory to know that you can do it. And, I just realize that, relationships, they don't fail. It's just, it's finished its job. It's given me- Yeah the clues that I need. And look I, a- again, I, this what, I thought I was gonna be a mother, I thought this, but I've, every journey that I've been on, every new path I've been on, I've realized that maybe this was the journey I've been meaning, meant to be on all along. Absolutely. And when you embrace that, it's been a really fulfilling life. And, even in the relationship, God, dating these days is impossible. I was gonna bring that up, yeah. Impossible. But you know what? I'm I have a great friend group network, all late 40s, early 50s. We're all singles. A couple married people, but I- I want to be part of your friend group. I don't have that. Any time. You're just an hour flight away. Come anytime. Yeah, for sure. We just all we love to travel. I, we we all like to do sim- similar things. Look I love being in love, but I also- now the older you get, it's I'm not willing to compromise. So yeah, dating these days- Totally it's I- Yeah I see what people... It's if it's anything less than what's serving me or what I, I don't need it. I'm very comfortable on my own. In fact, I don't know if I can live with anybody ever again. If I do- Yeah get married or have a relationship, I hope we have separate houses nearby. That'd be great. But no, I think, it's just when you give yourself the confidence to not sit in the stew of "Oh, gosh, I stay in this because, I'm supposed to be this." Yeah. And when you just embrace like, "Oh, you know what? I got out of it, and it felt better to be out of it than in it," then you gotta listen to, you have to listen to those lessons. You have to heed those list- lessons, extract the lessons versus carrying the scar. Yeah. That's been the most enlightening thing a- that I've experienced in, after my last divorce, is just that you know what? I don't need anything from a relationship anymore. I've, I have my three kids. I know who I am. I enjoy spending time with myself. I know what I like. I do very much enjoy, like you said, being in love and the romance, and I enjoy spending time with people and espe- I like having a relationship. But I'm the same, I don't need to- I don't need anything from them. I don't need them to take care of me. I don't- yeah. And it's a powerful place to be because then it's I don't need to settle. I think settling is such a, such a, some people do it because they feel like they have to, and I feel sad for that. It's some people do it out of necessity and I get it. I don't begrudge anybody for that. But yeah, it's just when you survive one honest pivot, then the fear loses its power, and I think that, you realize that you don't need to stay in something that's that's not serving you, yeah. Fear loses its power. I think that's really powerful. And it's so true. I think when I was younger, I chased relationships, and I tried so hard to make them work, and I definitely I don't know if I would look back, looking back, I don't know if it was so much settling as just maybe in, in a way, especially with my first marriage, it was like, he's the one that... But I would just take what was, what I, what fell into my lap. And I to some extent, that's the way I've gone through life, like the job that falls into your lap the people you meet, the, I think that there's some beauty in that. But I think that when, wh- when I was younger, I used to try to force things to work. I used to force myself to, to be like a jigsaw puzzle fitting into these different lives that I- Well- found myself in girl, when it came to dating, of course, we all did that, especially, and especially in our 20s, and That's what I'm saying, it's like the crap we put up with when we were younger. I think also it's just, because you're so set on "Oh, I'm supposed to get married," and you're, you meet the cute guy, and it's "Oh, he seems to have a good job," and it's like you don't think to look beyond that. And that's why I say you know- Yeah look, I, like we said, I love being in love. I hope to meet somebody. But I also think that if I do, it, it has potential to last long. I think that's... Look, I'm no expert. I don't proclaim to be an expert, but I think that's why a lot of marriages don't last when they start young, because you have no idea who you are at 20. Yeah. You're, you don't know who you're becoming. And 30, or you, who you're becoming. And it's very hard for two people to grow in the exact same direction, and that's why I feel like if I met somebody now in my 50s or in the future, my 60s, I know who I am. Hopefully by s- 50 or 60, they know who they are. And it's just I think that, has potential to just be have validity for a secure relationship is you both know who you are and what you want. And- you're going in it for those reasons, because, you're not needing... especially when you don't need, you're not reliant on somebody for financial or anything like that. You're just relying on, who they are as a person, and you're connecting on those levels because you know who you are. I think it has potential to be something that- Could survive hopefully. Yeah. True. Very cool. Yeah. All right. What else do we wanna talk about? Where are you traveling to these days? I was just in Spain, Nice in April, and then next month I'm going to London. Somebody invited me to the Royal Ascot. How exciting. I get to wear a big, fun hat. Yeah, I'm very excited. And in the fall, I get to go to Champagne for work, and so I'm gonna tag onto that and go to Burgundy. Do you speak French? No, I wish I did. I'm, I, I- Do you need a, do you need a French accompanist? I really wanna learn Fr- It's so hard. I'm s- I used to be good with languages when I was really young, but it's so hard to retain. I did do the lifetime of Rosetta Stone, but I realized I s- I think I s- did it for a week, and that was it. I need to take a class. I need a structure. Yes. I need a proper... You can teach me and come with me. Yeah, let's do it. I've always had a love for all things French. My dad's first language was French, so I grew up hearing it. Yeah. But it wasn't we didn't speak it in the home. But my grandparents spoke French, and my dad, My dad was actually born in Egypt. Oh. But he was French citizenship, but born in Egypt. It's a long story, and then all... they kicked out all the Europeans in the 1950s. Yeah. And they came m- a lot of his family came to France, and then some came to the US, and so I have a bunch of cousins in France. And in I started ta- I started studying it, 'cause we don't really offer... In Arizona, we didn't really have access to language classes w- really young. But I started taking it in junior high and then in high school and then in college, and I definitely took to it easier, better than the average person, partially because- Yeah I had an ear for it. I'd heard it all my life, and partially I think, just like you, I was kinda good at languages, and y- I think that I have a theory that people who are good with music, who are singers, are also t- tend to c- can be good at languages, 'cause they're, it's a similar ear, I think. Maybe that's why I'm bad at languages now- 'cause you do not wanna hear me singing, I'll tell you now. Wait, so can you get EU citizenship through your dad? I could. I could, and it's on my long list. I gotta get it. One of my big project lists, like I'm so jealous. I want to move to Europe when I retire. I wanna spend half the year there. I would love to get EU citizenship. If there's anybody in the EU that needs- a wife on paper- I've heard it's so- I'm available. I've heard it's so easy. Maybe we could get married. No. Yeah. Yes, I'll do it- I don't know if same-sex marriage is legal in, in France. I'll do it for EU citizenship. Yeah. No, it's not that easy. What I mean is my situation's a little complicated because my dad didn't get his French citizenship until later in life, until after I was an adult. He got it retroactively because he was... It was complicated because he was born in Egypt, and like I said he didn't really have officially the French citizenship even though he w- should have, would have. So he is, he does have a French passport now, And he's sent me copies of it. I need to... I think you actually need to go to the consulate in LA. So maybe I need to come visit you, and we'll- Yes. There you go go to the consulate. There you go. And then we can get- Then we can get married. We can get married so I get... Yeah, my best friend, her father was French, her mom German. She just got for her and her kids, either German or French citizenship, so it's dual passport. Yeah, I am like- All right. I might- I, yeah you're like reminding me more of like how important- Oh my God. I, and because it's not... I have no lineage. I've n- I know my grandmother's- But I've heard that like Ireland and other countries, that you don't necessarily even have to have the lineage I think some, for some of the countries. Some countries like Portugal is one of the easier ones. You just have to invest into a fund or like property. And then you have to be there like two weeks a year. So that's, that's more doable, so that's something like, that's why a lot of people retire there. So- that's, hopefully that plan is still in place when it's my retirement age, and then I can look to do something like that. But like I said, I'm available to anybody listening that- has an EU passport and needs a wife on paper, here I am. That's hilarious. All right. So short of getting married and becoming EU citizens, what else are we doing? The, what else is on the horizon for you? Are you writing other books, or what? Yeah. I just, I've always loved writing. I have a second iteration to this book. It's called A Whiskey Lover's Guide to Dog Breeds, 'cause I am a dog mom. Oh my gosh, I love it. That's cute. Yeah. And then, I'd love to finish the the children's books. I have I, I love true crime, so I have a fantastic idea for this serial killer story that I wrote it as a short story. I'd love to write as a novel, but that's something I'm like probably when I retire. It's, obviously- Same it's just- I also have a novel that's like- Yeah in the background. It's, Kind of working on it, but it's, you know when you have a full-time job, it's, and that pays, that's your bread and butter. That's priority number one. Even just- promoting this current book has become a second job, and it's been so fun, and I love it of course, putting out there, something that I worked on. But it's hard to find time to sit down and write. But yeah, and also, this book I shelved for 14 years because it's really hard to get published and- I finally brought it out because I'm somebody that, I want to check everything off my life's bucket list. And- this was always something I had gotten good feedback, and I said if I do nothing with this, it's gonna plague me on my deathbed." I found out about this hybrid publishing model, 'cause self-publishing scared me. So it's, I put the, forth all the money and I'm doing all the promotion, but I have a publisher behind you that guided the process. I'm very familiar, yeah. But yeah, so but, it's a lot of work. So the Whiskey Lover's Guide to Dog Breeds, again, if there's any publishers out there listening, that's available- for publishing. That would be the dream to get something- No, I think that's great, 'cause whiskey is another subject that I know a lot of personal friends who are, whiskey connoisseurs and have... I have one friend who has a whole wall of whiskey. Oh, nice. Different types of whis- different bottles of whiskey. He who knows? He has thousands of dollars worth of whiskey on, in his front room of his hou- his home. Oh, wow. His display case. But yeah, I think- Does he have a dog, too? He has a couple, yes. Okay. Yeah. So he would be my target audience for- Yeah Whiskey Lover's Guide to Dog Breeds. He would definitely buy that. That would be a great coffee table book, like- Yeah whiskey table book. He has a whiskey table. Yeah. Yeah. I'm working on finishing that. So yeah, hopefully that gets out there soon enough. That's exciting. Yeah. I'm so glad you came and chatted with me today. This is such a fun- Oh a fun episode. Is there anything... we're kinda I feel like I'm kinda wrapping it up but- Is there anything else you wanna share? No, thank you for having me. This was such a fun episode, such a fun chat. You'll have to let me know when you come to LA, and, I would love to, and it's- Yeah so fun to meet... This is an unexpected thing when I c- you know, started back up with this podcast just this past December after having it on the shelf for a couple years because I had way too many other things on my plate, and I started bringing it back and just started talking and just started prod- publishing every single Wednesday. And then gradually it started picking up steam, and now then, strangers started reaching out to me and asking to be on my podcast, and I was like, "That's- that's exciting. Okay." And so it's- fun to meet new people and- as we talked about before, it's like I just, I love the podcasts. They're good not only to do them, but as a listener, right? Because- instagram is just a static post, and it's, everything's so gravy and fantastic. And, podcasts are just, people, organic conversation, talking about real stuff, real life- Totally real things we're all going through. So I think that really, resonates with people. I know that's what I gravitate towards, so- Yeah I love it. I'm the same way. I love listening to podcasts that, aren't just prescriptive, like how to do this- Yeah but are just conversations about life, the things, the struggles and the triumphs that make us human. And I think that's what my book was about. My first book that I published was a memoir, Piece of Work. Oh. We're All a Piece of Work: A Work in Progress and a Work of Art. And- I like that. I'll have to check it out. Yeah. And like you said with yours, it was, like, something I just had to write. It was like if I had not written that book, I would have, yeah, been very upset. But now that's out there, And I also did a hybrid. It was more of self-publishing with that one. My next book I'm publishing with a hybrid publisher. It's called Resilient. And I'm not sure exactly what the subtitle's gonna be. But it's more of a self-help, more of a prescriptive type book about resilience. That's great. I love that. And I have my five R- Congratulations. Thank you. It's st- it's not... it'll be out in the fall sometime. And it features my five R resilience method. But I, just like you, I have ideas for children's books. I have a fict- a novel that I've started. So many different ideas and thoughts. I don't know why I started talking about that, though. Oh, the podcast thing. I love listening to podcasts because you're- Yeah you'll... i'll play them in the car. I'll play them when I'm doing laundry or just ar- around the house doing something mindless. And, yeah, I feel like you get an intimate- view into someone's life. And y- I love hearing people's stories. And so being able to be part of that is great. And I think that going on other people's podcasts is something I'd like to do. But for now I'm having fun- Yeah. You definitely have to, start promoting your books and your 5R r- to resilience method. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. So thanks for being on today, and I do hope we'll keep in touch. And, Absolutely tell us what, r- give us again your full name and the name of the book, and I'll make sure I put the link in the show notes. Where can people find you and your book? Super. I have a website, daniellefrankauthor.com. You can find me on Instagram at Create a Great Story. And my book is available online at, on Amazon and barnesandnoble.com. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for having me so much. This is so lovely. You're welcome. I look forward to chatting with you soon. Absolutely. Take care, Danielle. All right. Bye bye. Bye.